Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by fenton

For all intensive purposes

lol!

[Fast_Freddy]

Just to throw a few facts into the recent BS spew... The Innovate SC costs $3195 with free shipping vs the pre-production estimate of $1500 for the ESC. Shipping costs and inclusion of batteries is unknown. Tuning for either charger will cost the same depending on the tuning method and tuner you choose. The results are far from equal but for many the ESC will be good enough. I'm even considering it now.

[Calum]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=864890

Originally Posted by NickFRS

^ This is how 5lb's of boost should look like.

Or how about 6.2?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31218

There's always something better. If you need to shit on this thread to make yourself feel better about your purchase maybe you should do some soul searching as to why that is, instead of making yourself look like an ass any further.

[fenton]

Incase anyone wanted a back to back of innovative vs ESC from 2000 rpm in 3rd gear here it is.

Innovate left, ESC right

http://youtubedoubler.com/9Nsd

I promise that this is faster than a NA FRS or BRZ

[fenton]

Sorry @sw20kosh i used your video, i hope thats okay?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Just to throw a few facts into the recent BS spew... The Innovate SC costs $3195 with free shipping vs the pre-production estimate of $1500 for the ESC. Shipping costs and inclusion of batteries is unknown. Tuning for either charger will cost the same depending on the tuning method and tuner you choose. The results are far from equal but for many the ESC will be good enough. I'm even considering it now.

While this is true, i never get free shipping to canada lol.

Cost of batteries as per Rob is 80 dollars. We have a base tune that will be available for this system, not sure how Rob has decided he will package it but it wont be expensive like a dyno tune.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by Calum

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=864890



Or how about 6.2?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31218

There's always something better. If you need to shit on this thread to make yourself feel better about your purchase maybe you should do some soul searching as to why that is, instead of making yourself look like an ass any further.

Quoting turbo numbers in comparison to two superchargers..that'll throw the detractors off. I don't need to explain why 5psi on a supercharger will always make less power than 5psi on a turbo. So referencing turbo threads is pointless, thanks for wasting everyone's time.


My main question with this thing is does it deliver results constantly and consistently? In other words, you've cut ~$3000 off the only other centrifugal S/C on the market, how has that affected the ability of the system to produce boost 100% of the time?

Also, and maybe I missed it in ~50 pages of this mess, but why is there ANY difference in boost pressure across the rev band? This is an electric system, so why does RPM matter when it comes to spinning this charger? If you go WOT at 2k RPM and hit the "activate magical ESC" button, why doesn't it make 5psi (for instance) within a split second of the motor coming online? A DC electric motor's speed is dependent on the voltage and amperage reaching it, more power = higher RPM of the motor. So since DC electric motors reach their max RPM incredibly quickly (fractions of seconds given this things small size) why is the boost output so low until the engine revs higher?
A traditional pulley supercharger is driven by the engine, so boost will depend on how fast the engine is spinning the pulley; what is your excuse?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

Quoting turbo numbers in comparison to two superchargers..that'll throw the detractors off. I don't need to explain why 5psi on a supercharger will always make less power than 5psi on a turbo. So referencing turbo threads is pointless, thanks for wasting everyone's time.


My main question with this thing is does it deliver results constantly and consistently? In other words, you've cut ~$3000 off the only other centrifugal S/C on the market, how has that affected the ability of the system to produce boost 100% of the time?

Also, and maybe I missed it in ~50 pages of this mess, but why is there ANY difference in boost pressure across the rev band? This is an electric system, so why does RPM matter when it comes to spinning this charger? If you go WOT at 2k RPM and hit the "activate magical ESC" button, why doesn't it make 5psi (for instance) within a split second of the motor coming online? A DC electric motor's speed is dependent on the voltage and amperage reaching it, more power = higher RPM of the motor. So since DC electric motors reach their max RPM incredibly quickly (fractions of seconds given this things small size) why is the boost output so low until the engine revs higher?
A traditional pulley supercharger is driven by the engine, so boost will depend on how fast the engine is spinning the pulley; what is your excuse?

It does make 5psi as soon as you go WOT, even at 1500rpm.

Why it doesnt make 5psi at redline is this electric motor spins at approximately 40,000 rpm all the time, it isnt coupled to the engine to "spin faster" at higher RPM.

Once you understand that.... as the engine becomes a more efficient pump at higher rpm, that same 40,000 rpm doesnt equal the same amount of perssure in the manifold.

Its kinda the opposite of a centrifugal belt driven charger.... there the gear box is spinning the compressor at 20,000 rpm at 3000rpm(engine rpm) making 3psi and 60,000rpm at 7500rpm(engine rpm) making 9psi.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by fenton

It does make 5psi as soon as you go WOT, even at 1500rpm.

Why it doesnt make 5psi at redline is this electric motor spins at approximately 40,000 rpm all the time, it isnt coupled to the engine to "spin faster" at higher RPM.

Once you understand that.... as the engine becomes a more efficient pump at higher rpm, that same 40,000 rpm doesnt equal the same amount of perssure in the manifold.

Its kinda the opposite of a centrifugal belt driven charger.... there the gear box is spinning the compressor at 20,000 rpm at 3000rpm(engine rpm) making 3psi and 60,000rpm at 7500rpm(engine rpm) making 9psi.

Then why oh why is this thing, which is putting out the same boost as an innovate kit, not making the same power? Or more even since it's not using ANY from the motor to drive it? Nick"s FRS maybe an unfair comparison, but my innovate kit is on a 95% stock car (catback is the only other power mod) and it makes around 220hp and ~180lb-ft of torque. So where is the power? The engine doesn't care where it's getting the extra air, it's going to do the same thing with it, so why is this thing so gutless?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

Then why oh why is this thing, which is putting out the same boost as an innovate kit, not making the same power? Or more even since it's not using ANY from the motor to drive it? Nick"s FRS maybe an unfair comparison, but my innovate kit is on a 95% stock car (catback is the only other power mod) and it makes around 220hp and ~180lb-ft of torque. So where is the power? The engine doesn't care where it's getting the extra air, it's going to do the same thing with it, so why is this thing so gutless?

You must not be following me then. It isn't coupled to the engine therefore when the efficiency of the engine increases, boost decreases.

This system makes 210hp at 2psi believe it or not....Because we are not attached and drawing power from the engine to MAKE the boost we dont need as much.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

Then why oh why is this thing, which is putting out the same boost as an innovate kit, not making the same power? Or more even since it's not using ANY from the motor to drive it? Nick"s FRS maybe an unfair comparison, but my innovate kit is on a 95% stock car (catback is the only other power mod) and it makes around 220hp and ~180lb-ft of torque. So where is the power? The engine doesn't care where it's getting the extra air, it's going to do the same thing with it, so why is this thing so gutless?

Also as far as the gutless claim please review the below video.

Innovate VS ESC side by side 3rd gear pull.

http://youtubedoubler.com/9Nsd

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by fenton

While this is true, i never get free shipping to canada lol.

Cost of batteries as per Rob is 80 dollars. We have a base tune that will be available for this system, not sure how Rob has decided he will package it but it wont be expensive like a dyno tune.

Sorry Canuk, no free ship fo you!

Is that $80 for all 3 batteries or per battery? Every FI kit includes a base tune. In this case we need to add $200 for the BRZedit license, whatever a tuner charges to flash the ECU or $200 for your own cable.

BTW, has anyone tried to tune this with a Unichip? I'd be curious if that little piggyhack could even keep the CEL off. LOL

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

Then why oh why is this thing, which is putting out the same boost as an innovate kit, not making the same power?

???? The innovate kit is using a 7-9 psi pulley (depending on tune and back-pressure mods). This ESC charger is 5 psi.

The innovate kit makes ~210 with no other mods. That is the number you need to compare to this ESC. Not the 250 whp Nick et al is getting with supporting mods.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by NickFRS

My car is charged now (innovte) and makes at about + 40TQ + 40 more WHP.... I lol at this. If you going to spend the money spend it right. also makes way more torque and HP from 2k-redline.

Before my charger my car sat at 191WHP 150TQ with full exhaust + tune on 92. Rev'd way faster then that. (at least 140 WHTQ across the rev range no funny business)

This doesn't impress me much since you lose so much Torque after 5k RPMS (the rev range you stay in most if your actually driving the car) cool you picked up low end torque but thats about it. Money could be spent on more reliable solutions.

Your set up must feel like it falls on its face the higher you rev it.

I hope you didn't spend to much on all that electrical stuff.

Embarrassing.