Potential Buyer. Turbo vs. Supercharger

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Take my advice because it will save you a lot of trouble.

If the stock power levels are not sufficient for you, don't buy the car
If you already bought the car and you're not happy with the power levels, sell the car

All those running FI will only tell you how great it is. If there are any issues/problems, it won't be mentioned. They won't tell you the real reason why they are selling the car a few months later too.

... cue the outrage from FI proponents....

I actually bought the car with full intention of boosting it. It was only a question of when.... which happened to be when the vortech kit went on sale.

There are always bugs/issues installing any FI kit IMO.
That being said, I have not touched my kit after install except for when I changed the supercharger oil after the first 2500 miles and installed an aftermarket bypass valve. I fully expect to never "fix" anything on the kit except for when I change the belt yearly or when it shows sign of wear.

[FR-S Matt]

I'm going Turbo because Dominic Toretto said so and so did Pixar.




Actually, I just want to kill Mustangs is really why I want to go Turbo.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Just FWIW, though i generally agree with the sentiment, it's not always the case. Aside from taking a while to get the tune right, my FI experience has been problem-free and no more difficult than dropping the car off at rev works and picking it up a few times.

If you have a good shop local, you can go FI without the pain you read about on here from people doing it alone in their garage 1000 miles away from their tuner via email.

I'm with this guy, except I did it alone in my garage with a tuner that lives... actually, I'm not sure where he lives. The main point is that I could only communicate via email. The tune did work perfectly fine out of the box though.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

I'm going Turbo because Dominic Toretto said so and so did Pixar.

Actually, I just want to kill Mustangs is really why I want to go Turbo.

If you want to kill mustangs, me and the mad scientist will have to rip apart the block to eat the onion rings you fried

[mrk1]

If you want big numbers you bought the wrong car, unless you have deep pockets. I think a lot of people would be happy with a NA car with a higher final drive and that pesky torque dip eliminated.

just my opinion.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Just FWIW, though i generally agree with the sentiment, it's not always the case. Aside from taking a while to get the tune right, my FI experience has been problem-free and no more difficult than dropping the car off at rev works and picking it up a few times.

If you have a good shop local, you can go FI without the pain you read about on here from people doing it alone in their garage 1000 miles away from their tuner via email.

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

I actually bought the car with full intention of boosting it. It was only a question of when.... which happened to be when the vortech kit went on sale.

There are always bugs/issues installing any FI kit IMO.
That being said, I have not touched my kit after install except for when I changed the supercharger oil after the first 2500 miles and installed an aftermarket bypass valve. I fully expect to never "fix" anything on the kit except for when I change the belt yearly or when it shows sign of wear.

Your experiences are certainly valid points, but I'll have to counter with Dezoris's experience (his video review says, NO he would not do it again), and Vubaru's experience (car never worked properly and is now for SALE).

[AkaJabari]

I'd say turbo.

Keep in mind, this is still a two liter engine. Because of that, the method of power delivery is going to be much more important as it effects your usable power curve. No matter which way you go, you're going to make power. The effectiveness of that added power should be what concerns you.

I wouldn't go with a centrifugal charger on such a small displacement motor because of the power delivery. They start building power at low boost levels and peak HP linearly at redline by design. Yeah this works (and IMO is even ideal) for larger displacement motors because the torque is already there naturally. You're not wanting for power. When you're only working with two liters though... yeah the peak numbers look good but in the powerband where it actually matters, the engine is still essentially behaving like that stock two liter motor with very little torque. Unless you're constantly stomping on the gas and revving the piss out of it (you won't be), it's gonna feel like you spent a whole lot of money for nothing.

The twin screws are a little better in that you're almost instantly at ~4 psi on the peddle. They deliver more useable power. A small, fast spooling turbo would prolly be your best bet but then you're also introducing more cost and breakable parts into your setup.

Pick your poison but I'd stay away from centrifugal blowers for this platform. Hope that helps.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Your experiences are certainly valid points, but I'll have to counter with Dezoris's experience (his video review says, NO he would not do it again), and Vubaru's experience (car never worked properly and is now for SALE).

I wrench on cars as a hobby and have installed various turbo kits. I met dezoris (I loaned him my injector tool for his direct injector video) and he is a great guy. I dont know his mechanical background, but he knows how to film and review very well.

I personally dont know why he had so many problems... but the vortech kit was easy for me. To be honest I wish I knew him when he did the install so I could help.In the end it boils down to ability and experience. Im not talking down about Dezoris, its just that I have been doing this type of thing for 10 years. I was going to document my install as well but decided against it because it would take too long taking pictures of everything when the install manual goes over it anyways. If you read the manual and have experience working on performance modifications then you should be able to do a vortech install with little to no problem IMO.

Easiest FI kit install I've ever done.... the innovate is even easier from what I can see.

If anyone in Chicago area is buying a vortech kit, I will personally help you install it so you can see its not bad at all.

[FR-S Matt]

I think 604 WHP on Full Blown's Stage 2 turbo is what I would call big numbers. Especially for a 4 cylinder. Of course an 8 cylinder will blow that out of the water with similar mods horsepower wise but for someone finding a jack of all trades car that can be daily driven, get gas mileage, handle well, and smoke cars on the road? I think the FR-S fares pretty well versus the competition as a complete package with full customization. There's always going to be something better. What you can afford and what you enjoy is the reality of it.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Your experiences are certainly valid points, but I'll have to counter with Dezoris's experience (his video review says, NO he would not do it again), and Vubaru's experience (car never worked properly and is now for SALE).

the key point being that he did it himself as opposed to having a reputable shop do the work. also, the tuning was not done by that same shop.

the important bit to know is that if you want to go FI and don't want problems, find a good shop that makes their own kit and tunes in house, and send your car there.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by AkaJabari

I'd say turbo.
Pick your poison but I'd stay away from centrifugal blowers for this platform.

I'd go one further and suggest the same for any platform in which a centrifugal is not the only available option. They're a compromise that you don't want to make unless you have to in any case. A turbo is better at being a turbo, and a twin screw is better at being a supercharger, if that makes any sense at all.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by jamesm

I'd go one further and suggest the same for any platform in which a centrifugal is not the only available option. They're a compromise that you don't want to make unless you have to in any case. A turbo is better at being a turbo, and a twin screw is better at being a supercharger, if that makes any sense at all.

Each supercharger design has its place, and each has its distinct characteristics... and each has its customer base.

If there was a definitive "BEST" forced induction kit, we would only have one kit available and everyone would be running the same thing.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

Each supercharger design has its place, and each has its distinct characteristics... and each has its customer base.

If there was a definitive "BEST" forced induction kit, we would only have one kit available and everyone would be running the same thing.

in what scenario does a centrifugal make better top end power than a turbo? or better low end than a twin screw? there aren't any, because they're an inherently half-assed compromise between the two. that's my only point.

granted there may be a scenario where not making big boost at low rpm is beneficial for traction, but then i'd argue that you need more grip, not less power. 'it makes less power' is never a plus for an FI solution, it just looks like one sometimes when you're not really addressing the root of the issue at hand.

yeah, i'm a bit of a hater lol. fwiw i rode in a vortech car recently and was blown away by the performance. then again the kit's getting taken off and a turbo is getting put on because of the desire for mid-range torque, so the point remains. eventually you tire of the compromise.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by jamesm

in what scenario does a centrifugal make better top end power than a turbo? or better low end than a twin screw? there aren't any, because they're an inherently half-assed compromise between the two. that's my only point.

granted there may be a scenario where not making big boost at low rpm is beneficial for traction, but then i'd argue that you need more grip, not less power. 'it makes less power' is never a plus for an FI solution, it just looks like one sometimes when you're not really addressing the root of the issue at hand.

yeah, i'm a bit of a hater lol. fwiw i rode in a vortech car recently and was blown away by the performance. then again the kit's getting taken off and a turbo is getting put on because of the desire for mid-range torque, so the point remains. eventually you tire of the compromise.

I actually purchased a centrifugal for the linear powerband and modest power increase (if you can call ~250whp modest). I did not want to deal with any more power, and did not see a reason for it. I personally think gobs of power in a car like this ruins it for me. When I was younger my goal was always "How much power can I get out of this".... however, its changed.

I did my homework and got exactly what I wanted. If you buy a forced induction kit then take it off to install something else, I think that just means you did not research your options properly..... however, I have been guilty of that in the past