Direct Injector Failure Poll

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Well yeah, there are different types of uses and drivers. A track car at 400 whp 300 wtq, I agree, will not last very long, will need parts to be replaced, etc. But @lexusb3 daily drives his car, constantly thrashes it on the street, (I've seen it with my own eyes), and has yet to break a part, 12K + turboed miles.

So yes it depends on usage, but the claim the motor is stretched to its limits from factory is a bit too much IMHO, maybe I'm wrong.

Disregarding the rest of the drivetrain, I've long speculated that a FI BRZ/FR-S is actually MORE reliable for several reasons, and it seems to be coming to frutition as the platform is aging

- With increased power, you don't need to load the engine as much
- Less RPMs needed with increased power
- Less sustained time at higher load with increased power
- Less aggressive tune needed (more conservative) since more power is available; getting every last hp isn't critical
- Lower temps (with proper setup)

Among others.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Well yeah, there are different types of uses and drivers. A track car at 400 whp 300 wtq, I agree, will not last very long, will need parts to be replaced, etc. But @lexusb3 daily drives his car, constantly thrashes it on the street, (I've seen it with my own eyes), and has yet to break a part, 12K + turboed miles.

So yes it depends on usage, but the claim the motor is stretched to its limits from factory is a bit too much IMHO, maybe I'm wrong.

now its 13,000K turbo miles lol and i abuse it.... im personally stretching the limits of the factory!! i did a 21psi pull on the street to test the waters and it still works completely fine!!! and its 95degress out so im simualating track temperature hahah jk jk

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

now its 13,000K turbo miles lol and i abuse it.... im personally stretching the limits of the factory!! i did a 21psi pull on the street to test the waters and it still works completely fine!!! and its 95degress out so im simualating track temperature hahah jk jk

Please check back in this thread around 20-25K miles with the turbo if you get the chance...I hope that everything holds up

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Please check back in this thread around 20-25K miles with the turbo if you get the chance...I hope that everything holds up

about every 1,000 i update soo i def will

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

now its 13,000K turbo miles lol and i abuse it.... im personally stretching the limits of the factory!! i did a 21psi pull on the street to test the waters and it still works completely fine!!! and its 95degress out so im simualating track temperature hahah jk jk

Do you run exclusively on e85?

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Do you run exclusively on e85?

currently yes, but i also use pump gas 93 as well. I shall be using FA20club Flex fuel kit in the next few weeks so that i dont have to keep changing maps lol

[EK_Golfer]

Will be keeping RPMs under 5000 for now =/

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by EK_Golfer

Will be keeping RPMs under 5000 for now =/

I bounce mine between 7400-8000

[regal]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

I agree with your first point. But you are on a slippery slope with the second point. Their decision to not use the D-4S tells me that they probably were not licensed to use it on a different model car. This car is a joint venture project with Toyota. When companies do joint ventures car components are shared for those car models, not other models. So Subaru probably liked the concept of DI and decided to make their own version with the knowledge Toyota shared, but they were not able to use Toyota's system. Also I would predict they would have to pay royalties to Toyota in order to use their system if it transferred to a different model car.

You have to forgive me being in this industry for so long I see trends. Look at where the small displacement engine is going- 4 cylinder DI (direct injection turbo.)

Direct injection just fits turbo applications like a glove and as Mike well pointed out a few posts up a good turbo tune is proving safer than the stock tune even with our FA20. An engine like Subaru's OEM FA20T is just going to be much better over the long haul than our stock NA FA20 trying to squeeze 200 hp with these short cams. The OEMs should have just tuned the FA20 for 195hp and we would probably be driving them to a half a million miles like old Subaru's from the pre OBDII days.

Hopefully the OEM FA20T will be a hit in Subaru's lineup and a hassle free swap when our FA20's give up at 60k miles. I wonder if we can import the Legacy GT FA20T front clips yet? If not we already have FI kits with tunes for the FA20 that don't scorch the heads and don't detonate.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by regal

You have to forgive me being in this industry for so long I see trends. Look at where the small displacement engine is going- 4 cylinder DI (direct injection turbo.)

Direct injection just fits turbo applications like a glove and as Mike well pointed out a few posts up a good turbo tune is proving safer than the stock tune even with our FA20. An engine like Subaru's OEM FA20T is just going to be much better over the long haul than our stock NA FA20 trying to squeeze 200 hp with these short cams. The OEMs should have just tuned the FA20 for 195hp and we would probably be driving them to a half a million miles like old Subaru's from the pre OBDII days.

Hopefully the OEM FA20T will be a hit in Subaru's lineup and a hassle free swap when our FA20's give up at 60k miles. I wonder if we can import the Legacy GT FA20T front clips yet? If not we already have FI kits with tunes for the FA20 that don't scorch the heads and don't detonate.

You make it sound like the engine is the worst POS ever and the majority of them have major issues.

Lighten up man, its not that bad...

[regal]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

You make it sound like the engine is the worst POS ever and the majority of them have major issues.

Lighten up man, its not that bad...

I know I don't mean to single out the FA20, all these ULEV goals have made it tough to build an OEM sports car engine. That said with the latest news from Tada even he is admitting the FA20 was a mistake. By 2015 this will be a DIT engine like the rest of the industry's modern small displacement engines.

I'll be fine with the FA20 once a get a good tune, mechanically it is very good but I stand by my words that the factory tune leaves a lot to be desired .

Remember I spend 6 hrs this week replacing DI seals the dealer wouldn't touch so still a little sore and grumpy

Thank god for this forum or I would have been replacing an engine

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

He means naturally aspirated. Based on my experience, anyone with 400+whp and keeping their car intact (for the time being) is either not driving hard, or constantly replacing parts.

The rest of the drivetrain is not designed to handle anywhere near that much torque.

Absolutely.. No way this car is made to handle 400+ HP or pony power for that matter.. Low grip is what saves the drivetrain from the stress its not designed for..

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

I know I don't mean to single out the FA20, all these ULEV goals have made it tough to build a sports car engine. That said with the latest news from Tada even he is admitting the FA20 was a mistake. By 2015 this will be a DIT engine like the rest of the industry's modern small displacement engines.

I'll be fine with the FA20 once a get a good tune, mechanically it is very good but I stand by my words that the factory tune leaves a lot to be desired .

Remember I spend 6 hrs this week replacing DI seals the dealer wouldn't touch so still a little sore and grumpy

Thank god for this forum or I would have been replacing an engine

Lol.. You have a way with words.. He never said the FA20 was a mistake.. He's talking about the next generation.. The new thing to excite existing owners and attract new ones.. Just like GM did with the C6 corvette.. After having the LS2 for 2005 - 2007.. The new and improved LS3 was the new engine starting in 08.
You need to get over your personal vendetta with the FA20 already..

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Absolutely.. No way this car is made to handle 400+ HP or pony power for that matter.. Low grip is what saves the drivetrain from the stress its not designed for..

That's true abviously a 400hp '86 needs a tranny, diff, and axels, but the point that Sportsguy was making is that the longblock is very solid. Very few OEM shortblocks made today can handle a 100% increase in HP even for a few hundred miles let alone 10k, that says a lot about the importance of tuning with this car.