Scion pure pricing.

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by miata

If Toyota decides to sell FRS for $25000 how much do you think was added by the demand? $5000?

If they sell if for $25000 then demand warrants a $25000 price. It's not like they get out the accountants, total up the cost, and slap on some 'adder' for demand.

Originally Posted by miata

Are you saying they could profit enough to justify the development if they sold the car for $20000?

No. I didn't say that, but that doesn't mean it's not true. If there was MASSIVE demand at that price, then maybe it's profitable.

Originally Posted by miata

I do not think so. Certainly if there is a high demand for it they can set the MSRP little higher but not by thousands.

Why not? It all depends on how strong the demand is. I admit it's unlikely, and my example was a little extreme, but then people have paid in the hundreds for a tickle-me-Elmo. I wonder what the development cost of that was.

Originally Posted by miata

The big chunk of the MSRP is set by how much they need to charge for the projected sales number minus the development/production investment.

This is the point I'm trying to refute. Ultimately, they'll do a bunch of feasibility studies before they even develop it, with estimates of what they can charge for this thing, and how many people will buy it at a given price level. Then they'll look at what they think it'll cost to develop and build. If it looks like they'll make money, the project goes ahead.

The way you make it sound is that the MSRP is just a function of what it costs. If these are on sale for a year, and they negotiate a better labor contract at the plant and can then build them cheaper, you can bet they're not going to lower MSRP because their costs are lower.

If you walk into the dealer, and he makes a list of all of these special techniques they used to build it (say they have some fancy tailors stitching the seats together) and it drives the cost way up, people aren't going to be willing to pay more, you'd just be like, "wtf. it's the same car. I think it's worth XXX and that's all I would pay for this."

Basically...

Price is what the market will bear.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

Price is what the market will bear.

True to some extent. But don't underestimate the strength of the yen.

[miata]

The profit margin, which I do not know exactly, is a given pretty much. Let's say the average profit margin for a mass produced car is 10% for the manufacturer, FR S will fetch just about that no matter how big the demand is. But you make it sound like because there is a high demand Toyota will make 15% on this car. It isn't so.

[Midnight Run]

the profit margin has to be at least 25%.. otherwise businesses will not be sustainable.

[miata]

For the dealer it is about 5-8%. For the manufacturer it is probably about 10-15%.

[devinclfalcons]

Does anyone know if Subaru offers any rebates like the College Graduate rebate from Scion?

[miata]

I don't like pure pricing. It's a BS. I would rather pay MSRP like MINIs.

[Dunkindoanuts]

some advice ive been given is to deal with the internet sales guy, u guys think that person will let me do the recent college graduate 1k rebate with a purchase of the fr-s?

[devinclfalcons]

Originally Posted by Dunkindoanuts

some advice ive been given is to deal with the internet sales guy, u guys think that person will let me do the recent college graduate 1k rebate with a purchase of the fr-s?

I want to know how I can get more money off than just the 1k college rebate... How can you get around this pure pricing?? Will they ever advertise a lower price than MSRP?

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by miata

I don't like pure pricing. It's a BS. I would rather pay MSRP like MINIs.

I agree, it is BS. I'd rather just be able to negotiate like a normal person rather than pay the automatic $1200+ over invoice a tC has for example.

Pure Price is purely for Pure Morons who couldn't or wouldn't negotiate in the first place.

A few hundred over invoice is all I've ever paid for my new cars.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

I agree, it is BS. I'd rather just be able to negotiate like a normal person rather than pay the automatic $1200+ over invoice a tC has for example.

Pure Price is purely for Pure Morons who couldn't or wouldn't negotiate in the first place.

A few hundred over invoice is all I've ever paid for my new cars.

yeah but i think of it this way, people like you haggle the dealer down so far that sometimes they loose money on deals... I've worked at a few dealerships and its common that the only way a person will tale the car is to push it 1k BELOW invoice then come back the next day and say the price wasn't low enough, at that point we wipe our smiles and tell the person to fuck off cause we know you could pay 200+ dollars more a month on the car because of your ridiculous credit ratings, and give below the lowest interest rates that we could give or possibly give we already save people 3-6k on the back end because of the low interest rates that we shouldn't even be giving then you want 5k off msrp, so we save you 6-9k on the car and your still unhappy? even though we LOST 1k on the car...

at these standards, my dealership kindly tells people to fuck off and we escort them out the door... if you cant afford a new car then dont buy one...

when you pay a couple hundred over invoice the guy who spent 4 hours haggling you and stressing out just made somewhere between 50-200 dollars and possibly getting fired because you like to butt rape dealerships... thats my 2cents, I've always paid a car off in cash or financed the minimum of 5k and didn't haggle

there was a guy today who wouldn't buy the car because it was 5 dollars off from what he wanted, i drove to mcdonalds bought 2 big macs came back and told him here's what you aren't willing to pay, and the guy said well i know yall can go lower, and i told him well if we went any lower the dealership would be giving you a blowjob all of my finance managers stood up and circled him and said "GET THE FUCK OUT"

other customers just kinda laughed at the guy as he walked out the door because he was such a cheapskate

he came back 2 hours later and paid 90 bucks more a month than what we gave him

[devinclfalcons]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

yeah but i think of it this way, people like you haggle the dealer down so far that sometimes they loose money on deals... I've worked at a few dealerships and its common that the only way a person will tale the car is to push it 1k BELOW invoice then come back the next day and say the price wasn't low enough, at that point we wipe our smiles and tell the person to fuck off cause we know you could pay 200+ dollars more a month on the car because of your ridiculous credit ratings, and give below the lowest interest rates that we could give or possibly give we already save people 3-6k on the back end because of the low interest rates that we shouldn't even be giving then you want 5k off msrp, so we save you 6-9k on the car and your still unhappy? even though we LOST 1k on the car...

at these standards, my dealership kindly tells people to fuck off and we escort them out the door... if you cant afford a new car then dont buy one...

when you pay a couple hundred over invoice the guy who spent 4 hours haggling you and stressing out just made somewhere between 50-200 dollars and possibly getting fired because you like to butt rape dealerships... thats my 2cents, I've always paid a car off in cash or financed the minimum of 5k and didn't haggle

there was a guy today who wouldn't buy the car because it was 5 dollars off from what he wanted, i drove to mcdonalds bought 2 big macs came back and told him here's what you aren't willing to pay, and the guy said well i know yall can go lower, and i told him well if we went any lower the dealership would be giving you a blowjob all of my finance managers stood up and circled him and said "GET THE FUCK OUT"

other customers just kinda laughed at the guy as he walked out the door because he was such a cheapskate

he came back 2 hours later and paid 90 bucks more a month than what we gave him

Getting forced to pay msrp (pure pricing) is much different than getting a car well below invoice.

[miata]

Pure pricing is not MSRP. It could be above or below MSRP depending on the dealer. Pure pricing means there will be no haggling. So if you don't like the advertised price don't go to that dealership. But if there is only one scion dealership in the area you have to go to that one whether you like the advertised price or not.

On the other hand all MINI dealers were selling their cars at MSRP in 2007 when I bought mine. That way you didn't have to shop around. All other new cars I bought in the last five years were through zag.com. Their price was between invoice and MSRP without any haggling.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by miata

Pure pricing is not MSRP. It could be above or below MSRP depending on the dealer. Pure pricing means there will be no haggling. So if you don't like the advertised price don't go to that dealership. But if there is only one scion dealership in the area you have to go to that one whether you like the advertised price or not.

On the other hand all MINI dealers were selling their cars at MSRP in 2007 when I bought mine. That way you didn't have to shop around. All other new cars I bought in the last five years were through zag.com. Their price was between invoice and MSRP without any haggling.

i was just saying haggling prices down to 100 - 200 above invoice made that dude a tool