FRS vs. MR-S (MR2 Spyder)

[autobrz]

best vs thread so far on ft86club
Before I even considered the BRZ, I was looking for a 2zz swapped MR-S. I drove my friend's stock MR-S. The handling is light years ahead of the MK2 MR2 I had, lol... I would say it is more agile feeling than the BRZ. I think it should be given its low weight and even lower weight distribution in the front.

Well, life dictated I needed back seats and something newer for a daily driver so the BRZ is the best car for me right now.

I feel some people buy cars to drive and others collect cars to look good in. I never really liked the look of the MR-S that much but I would still love to drive one if life's demands were different.

p.s. the celica and elise crowd have explored the tuning potential of the 2zz. It's a good motor.

[autobrz]

a cool mr-s racing video
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHtgnZIxNHc"]NA on the run - Amuse S2000 - Hot Version International - YouTube[/ame]

[regal]

Originally Posted by fatoni

what makes you think that?

The 2zz MR-S weighs less than 2200 lbs, blows the twins away in a straight line, and is mid engined so handles better than probably any Toyota ever made. Its a lot like an Elise minus the double wishbone and carbon body.

But I have heard reports of a few MR-S 2zz swaps where the swap is less than OEM quality. Small issues like clutch travel, hoses, fitment. Little things like that can turn into major headaches. There were so few MR-S's sold that aftermarket support is already falling of. I noticed that the main 2zz swap supplier's website is down. Probably missed the boat on this one.

I'm satisfied with the FR-S, in a few years when we all start modding. Swappig springs, struts, tires, along with a good FI kit will make it a very high performing sports car that will compete well with a 2zz MR-S.

The Twins have already sold more units in one year than the MR-S did in 5 years. I don't think their sales will fizzle off like the MR-S did if reliability is good. More stories like CSGMike's and these cars will be a flash in the pan. But if the 2014's have a better cylinder head without the DI issue they are poised to become a very strong selling car and that means a large economical aftermarket support base.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by fatoni

what makes you think that?

Personal, first hand experience.

But you do not have to take my word for it. Just ask anyone who has tried to keep up with a 2ZZ Spyder at Buttonwillow or Streets of Willow or Willow Springs.

Originally Posted by regal

But I have heard reports of a few MR-S 2zz swaps where the swap is less than OEM quality. Small issues like clutch travel, hoses, fitment. Little things like that can turn into major headaches. There were so few MR-S's sold that aftermarket support is already falling of. I noticed that the main 2zz swap supplier's website is down. Probably missed the boat on this one.

I'm satisfied with the FR-S, in a few years when we all start modding. Swappig springs, struts, tires, along with a good FI kit will make it a very high performing sports car that will compete well with a 2zz MR-S.

The Twins have already sold more units in one year than the MR-S did in 5 years. I don't think their sales will fizzle off like the MR-S did if reliability is good. More stories like CSGMike's and these cars will be a flash in the pan. But if the 2014's have a better cylinder head without the DI issue they are poised to become a very strong selling car and that means a large economical aftermarket support base.

The swaps, if done right, are as trouble free as a stock Spyder and there are still a number of shops doing them. It is also so straight forward that you can do it in your garage with handtools and an engine lift if you are mechanically inclined. All the swap parts are readily available.

There is no doubt that, at this time, the performance potential of the twins is better than the Spyder. It is the new kid on the block and all the aftermarket companies are jumping on board. It is also cheaper than the original Spyder when you take inflation into account. If you have $25K to spend it is the car to get. If you only have 10K then the Spyder with a 2ZZ will give you equal or greater performance as long as you can live with less space and its poor little hideous face (lol).

[hmong337]

When you guys are talking about a 2zz mr-s, you guys have to understand that you guys are comparing something that's already been extensively modified (engine swapped). So for that case, I'd rather go the NB Miata route and blow EVERYTHING out of the water with an Ls1 swap if you guys wanna talk engine swaps. Cost vs cost, an Lsx swapped Miata is not much more than a 2zz mr-s but infinitely more powerful than anything of these 4bangers can bring. Last I checked, used Ls1 engines go for as much as 2zz units. And with the v8 swapping crowd going to the smaller 4.8L 5.3L engines, those engines are even cheaper!

Stock vs stock, the mr-s uses a corolla engine. Enough said!

[hmong337]

I wouldn't even bother with the 2zz and go straight to king of bangers with a K20a unit if I were considering an MR-s.

[autobrz]

a 2zz will have stock driveability with stock clutch feel which is impossible to say for lsx swaps

[regal]

Originally Posted by autobrz

a 2zz will have stock driveability with stock clutch feel which is impossible to say for lsx swaps

Yea I've read a few MR-S swap stories over the years and as long as you get an early 2zz the swap into a MR-S is a different sort of swap than a GM V8's into any imports. Its a lot like putting an SR20DET into a 240SX. It just bolts right in like it was engineered to be there (because it probably was engineered to be there.)

Someone at Toyota designed the MR-S with the 2zz but politics and design by committee killed it. Maybe the MR-S project manager was a corporate spy for Mazda or Lotus , a 2zz would have added about $500 to the cost of the vehicle instead they offered the stupid sequential transmission that cost Toyota probably 10x as much. Result = poor decisions killed Toyotas last sports car that was destined to be a S2k killer.

A 2zz Spyder swap basically is stock for all intents and purposes, its a correction to corporate sabotage.

Don't worry in a few years we will probably be saying the same thing about Legacy FA20T swaps into the twins.

I've never seen a review or a video or even a list of specs for a 2zz spyder but I bet it would be a mind blowing to many.

I no longer consider it the car that could have been since it looks fairly reasonable to obtain a 2zz Spyder now days.

I do wish I had given this more consideration before buying the FR-S, but time will tell.

[hmong337]

How can you say that it's "essentially" stock but it was never put into the car from factory?! WTF.

The MR-S only ever left the production floor with a corolla motor. I think TTE might have done a few versions of the MR-S with a 2zzge or turbo'd the corolla motor but those were limited runs and certainly not assembled on the factory floor. You're getting into the aftermarket when you're talking about putting a 2zzge in the mr-s. And if you guys want to get into an aftermarket discussion, that's another story. Might as well do a k20a unit and be head from the start. motor swaps are motor swaps. Quite frankly, I'd rather start with the NB Miata and V8 that SOB rather than poking around swapping in one 4 cylinder motor for another 4 cylinder motor.

[chulooz]

a LS miata does not have the same dynamic as a swapped mrS, and neither have the same as the twins. The AW11 has my heart, but those swapped spyders are rocketships; I'd love to own both.

Some folks just want to have a modern car, with all the features that come with it. Anyone that buys the twins as a 'raw' car is kidding themselves. I think its a funny fake argument some FRS owners use; as if HIDs, leather, P2S, and an infotainment screen get in the way of driving.

[hmong337]

If you guys are so keen on comparing a 2zz swap mr-s to a stock frs/brz, obviously the mr-s wins. Lighter weight, decent power, and handling prowess wins. But that's apples to oranges here. Modified vs stock. Throw some forced induction onto the gt86 and the game changes. It can go both ways when talking modifying. So why bother.

Stock vs stock. The mr-s gets mopped up by the frs. There is no comparison. The mr-s loses in every comparison against the frs/brz; including price.

With all that aside, the gt86 is way more liveable too. It has tons more room than an mr-s and seats 4 in a pinch.

The mr-s would be something used as a third or a fourth car; or built as a track slut.

In terms of potential vs costs, i believe it's simply not worth doing up an mr-s in respects to performance per dollars. Cool car no doubt and would be very rare to see an ass kicking mr-s. But for that level of performance to be achieved, you're looking at dumping way too much money. Plus, those cars are a bitch to work on!

Which is why I keep bring up the NB Miata with the V8. It weighs just a tad more than the stock engine but has infinitely more power than even a k20a mr-s. Driving dynamics are not changed very much as stated by many owners other than you've gobs more power than any 4banger can offer. When looking at price point versus performance, you're getting WAY more car going with the Miata.

[LS13]

This

IN the MR2 Equals =

This



&



This is easily my most Fav mod of the mr2 Spyder. The guy is doing it right, although I prefer it with the stock hood.

You guys can follow the evolution of all his build here if you are interested

http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthr...body-340whp%29

[autobrz]

brz is more practical. as already been pointed out mrs has got lots of room in the engine bay withouta trunk u cant take ur experience w the sw20 and carry it over to the spyder

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by autobrz

brz is more practical. as already been pointed out mrs has got lots of room in the engine bay withouta trunk u cant take ur experience w the sw20 and carry it over to the spyder

I am? c

The sw20 is vastly different to the mr-s. Not even close to being the same.

What I am doing is comparing to comparable cars. The nb miata and the mr-s. Nb miata wins hands-down.



Btw, I'm drooling over that k20a mr-s posted above! Sweet ass ride!