FRS vs. MR-S (MR2 Spyder)

[regal]

Despite all the issues I still like my FR-S but if I could do it over I think the MR2 Spyder with a 2ZZ Elise/Celica drivetrain would have been a better choice.

In the last 15 years we have had the very lightweight Elise as mentioned, but it wasn't practical for a DD because the carbon shell could be totaled in a parking lot at 10 mph (little $1k fender bender with most cars.)

The S2k wasn't a lightweight either, at the time it was considered heavy for a roadster. I always ruled it out as too heavy. The MR-S weighed 500 lbs less than an S2k.

The real sleeper from the last decade was a Toyota MR2-Spyder with the Elise/Celica 2ZZ swap. Before buying the FRS I was searching for an MR-S. Very few were built and I kick myself now for not buying one but with my job I didn't have time to hunt a pristine example let alone to pull off a 2zz swap. I test drove an MR-S with the 2zz swap and it was unbelievable , most of the Elise qualities without the fragile shell, only weighed 2200lbs and a bullet proof reliable 2Zz.

This was when Toyota was saying the '86 would be under 2500 lbs with 200 hp for around $20k, this guy wanted $16k for his 2zz MR-S so I waited.

I do prefer coupes, always have so this was also incentive to wait. I really expected the 86 to be better than the 2zz MR-S. I thought many would be dumping their MR-S's for the new 86, this hasn't happened.

I still like my FR-S, but with the DI issue I have if I could do it all over again I would find or build an MRS with the Elise drivetrain. Probably the best affordable sports car of the 2000's decade.

Very few were made so they hold their value well. The main drawback is no storage space at all. I commute to work every day in my FRS but in the last year have only used the trunk one time.

I think with a 2zz Toyota's last sports car is really an overlooked gem.

[GT86meMR2]

I dont rly consider the GT86/BRZ a better car it's just a more practical version of the MR2 alot of easier to live with and just more daily drivable, they have alot of things in common in drive and feel in my opinion an MR2 2ZZ is just Awesome though and quite fast and fun.

[regal]

Originally Posted by BRZmeMR2

I dont rly consider the GT86/BRZ a better car it's just a more practical version of the MR2 they have alot of things in common in drive and feel in my opinion an MR2 2ZZ is just Awesome though and quite fast and fun.

The thing that really stings is an MR2 Spyder with a $5k 2zz swap is a lot faster than an FRS with a supercharger. I know its not all about straight-line speed, but the spyder handles very well, and a 2zz is an engine that will take punishment for years.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I would have had to find a hard top for the Spyder, and my luck I would have picked a bad 2zz longblock but could have had a real special car for under $20k if I had taken the risk.

Hopefully the DI issue will be resolved and the FRS will prove to be reliable with a supercharger over the long haul. It does seem to have a much larger aftermarket which is always a good sign.

[Rampage]

There is a really nice 2ZZ swapped 2001 Spyder with TRD kit for sale over on Spyderchat right now for $9200. 131K on chassis and 75K on drive train. It is located in CA. No affiliation.

[hmong337]

personally, i never liked the look of the mr-s. i know i'm gonna catch a lot of flack by saying this but it always seemed "girly" to me. sort of along the lines of the miata but uglier LOL. there's no disputing the performance potential of the mr-s. lightweight, midship, and power potential. but the lack of usable space is what completely kills it for me as i tend to use all the space i can in a car and the mr-s basically has zero storage capacity other than the cubbies behind the seats and the front-trunk or "frunk" as what us mr2 guys call it.

oh and another HUGE thing... it's not a mechanic friendly car to fix! ask me how i know. i've been dabbling with these mid-engine toyotas forever and leaning over that rear c-pillar to get at the engine gets old quick!

[GT86meMR2]

Originally Posted by hmong337

personally, i never liked the look of the mr-s. i know i'm gonna catch a lot of flack by saying this but it always seemed "girly" to me. sort of along the lines of the miata but uglier LOL. there's no disputing the performance potential of the mr-s. lightweight, midship, and power potential. but the lack of usable space is what completely kills it for me as i tend to use all the space i can in a car and the mr-s basically has zero storage capacity other than the cubbies behind the seats and the front-trunk or "frunk" as what us mr2 guys call it.

oh and another HUGE thing... it's not a mechanic friendly car to fix! ask me how i know. i've been dabbling with these mid-engine toyotas forever and leaning over that rear c-pillar to get at the engine gets old quick!

In my experience the GT86 and MR Spyder have alot in common they both look way more expensive cars than they are to other people.. i never had that in a miata.. The MR Spyder with a 2ZZ is definitely alot faster than a GT86 but it's just so seriously impractical compared to it 2 i daily drived my MR2 for 4 years and now the GT86 is close enough in feel to my MR2 to get the GT86 just for the improved daily drivability.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by regal

I think with a 2zz Toyota's last sports car is really an overlooked gem.

I agree with this! My 2ZZ swapped Spyder saved me from spending $25K+ on a FR-S.

The 2ZZ is, as you say, "bulletproof" if you keep oil in it. Low oil plus extended hard cornering equals spun rod bearing on #4 cylinder!

Originally Posted by regal

The thing that really stings is an MR2 Spyder with a $5k 2zz swap is a lot faster than an FRS with a supercharger.

Not so sure about this. I have 181WHP with the stock 2000 Celica ECU and a 2223 curb weight with the hard top. If a FR-S is putting down 240-250 WHP at 2750LB it would be pretty close if not faster. A PFC will add about 13-18 more HP to the Spyder but then you lose OBDII testing compatibility.

Originally Posted by hmong337

personally, i never liked the look of the mr-s. i know i'm gonna catch a lot of flack by saying this but it always seemed "girly" to me. sort of along the lines of the miata but uglier LOL. there's no disputing the performance potential of the mr-s. lightweight, midship, and power potential. but the lack of usable space is what completely kills it for me as i tend to use all the space i can in a car and the mr-s basically has zero storage capacity other than the cubbies behind the seats and the front-trunk or "frunk" as what us mr2 guys call it.

oh and another HUGE thing... it's not a mechanic friendly car to fix! ask me how i know. i've been dabbling with these mid-engine toyotas forever and leaning over that rear c-pillar to get at the engine gets old quick!

The MR-S is certainly an acquired taste. The hard top changes the whole character of the car. I am constantly asked if it is a Lotus or a Porsche and then people do not believe me when I say it is a 13 year old Toyota. The convertible top has been removed completely from my car which doubles the storage space in the cabin. My son and I have taken weekend trips in the car with all our luggage and folding chairs, a cooler and umbrellas without a problem. Still the car is not a station wagon by any means. I have done what I can to eliminate the "Pikachu" look of the front of the car.

Girls do not like my car. While they like the look, it is a little too "raw" for them. Too loud, too fast and too low. They cannot get out of it wearing a skirt without showing off the "goods".

I find the Spyder very easy to work on. It is much easier than the 91 MR2 that I had years ago.

Originally Posted by BRZmeMR2

In my experience the GT86 and MR Spyder have alot in common they both look way more expensive cars than they are to other people.. i never had that in a miata.. The MR Spyder with a 2ZZ is definitely alot faster than a GT86 but it's just so seriously impractical compared to it 2 i daily drived my MR2 for 4 years and now the GT86 is close enough in feel to my MR2 to get the GT86 just for the improved daily drivability.

The FR-S is a more practical car to live with on a day to day basis. But being civilized is also why the FR-S weighs 500LBS more and is not quite as good a pure sports car as the MR2 Spyder.

IMHO Toyota really blew it when they did not put the 2ZZ in the Spyder.

[GT86meMR2]

Originally Posted by Marchy

I'm with you on this one, the mr-s was down right ugly. I don't care how much potential the car has, when its that ugly i don't want to be seen in it.

now an mr-2 is a different story.

I know everyone has different tastes but ive never heard anyone say my car was ugly quite the opposite it's a head turner and you get alot of compliments just like the GT86/BRZ

[GT86meMR2]

And i dont mind ^^ the internet is a very big place so there had to be some people who dont like the look of the MR Spyder :p A car that evrybody thinks is gorgeous just doesent exist

[hmong337]

But i think in general, the masses think it's horrid looking. To go from a timeless ferrari look like my sw20 model to a butt ugly miata wannabe is what killed it. I remember reader an msn auto or something like that and the mr-s made it into the top 10 ugliest cars ever made along side with the pontiac aztec. You know, i tend to agree. Such a shame. I'm glad it got axed along with the corolla motor that sat in the middle of that car. No offense to owners, it's definitely a wicked performer. But i just can't be seen in something that ugly. Sorry.

[Rampage]

I think it has now been established that Canadians, both drunk and sober, think the MR2 Spyder is fugly. :happy0180:


The FR-S is prettier. There is no argument there.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I think it has now been established that Canadians, both drunk and sober, think the MR2 Spyder is fugly. :happy0180:


The FR-S is prettier. There is no argument there.

LOL

If I were to be in the market for the MR-S, I would also be looking at its direct competitor, the NB Miata. Sadly, I'd take the NB Miata. It has more potential in a tuning aspect as you can shove an LSx motor into one with a kit. The support is far beyond any other car platform. It's easy to work on. Its a cool budget club racer. The car has more space too. It would be converted to a hardtop for sure though.

Don't get me wrong. I often thought about doing a stripped out MR-S with a K20A; ultimately making it a track slut. How badass would that be!

But the MR-S is old news and the FR-S is here.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by hmong337

But the MR-S is old news and the FR-S is here.

Maybe that is what I find so fascinating about the 2ZZ Spyder. Here is a car that Toyota could've-should've made in 2000 or at least in 2003 or 2004 when Mazda stepped up the Miata with more HP that quite frankly will blow the Miata or the 2013 FR-S in the weeds in every performance category. In my mind, I (and others) just did what Toyota should have done all those years ago.

I find it interesting that when you read the Media releases and magazine articles for the MR2 Spyder from 1999 and then read the press releases and magazine articles for the FR-S they read exactly the same. Toyota trying to attract the young professionals blah blah blah lightweight sports car blah blah blah sporty blah blah blah fun to drive blah blah blah great handling blah blah blah under powered blah blah blah. I hope they treat the FR-S better than they did the MR-S in the coming years.

I understand what you are saying about the Miata. However, I cannot fit in one very well. Although the Spyder has a lot less luggage space, it has a lot more people space. The longer wheelbase gives more legroom and the lack of a drive train tunnel gives more hip room. In my opinion, when you add a hard top to the Spyder it makes it a lot better looking. When you add one to a Miata it becomes awkward looking. Obviously, that is just my perception.

I like small bore performance cars so putting a LS engine in a Miata, Mr2 or FR-S is the furthest thing from my mind.

All that said, I am glad that Toyota (with help from Subaru) has made another attempt at building a sports car.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Maybe that is what I find so fascinating about the 2ZZ Spyder. Here is a car that Toyota could've-should've made in 2000 or at least in 2003 or 2004 when Mazda stepped up the Miata with more HP that quite frankly will blow the Miata or the 2013 FR-S in the weeds in every performance category. In my mind, I (and others) just did what Toyota should have done all those years ago.

I find it interesting that when you read the Media releases and magazine articles for the MR2 Spyder from 1999 and then read the press releases and magazine articles for the FR-S they read exactly the same. Toyota trying to attract the young professionals blah blah blah lightweight sports car blah blah blah sporty blah blah blah fun to drive blah blah blah great handling blah blah blah under powered blah blah blah. I hope they treat the FR-S better than they did the MR-S in the coming years.

I understand what you are saying about the Miata. However, I cannot fit in one very well. Although the Spyder has a lot less luggage space, it has a lot more people space. The longer wheelbase gives more legroom and the lack of a drive train tunnel gives more hip room. In my opinion, when you add a hard top to the Spyder it makes it a lot better looking. When you add one to a Miata it becomes awkward looking. Obviously, that is just my perception.

I like small bore performance cars so putting a LS engine in a Miata, Mr2 or FR-S is the furthest thing from my mind.

All that said, I am glad that Toyota (with help from Subaru) has made another attempt at building a sports car.

what makes you think that?