Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[fenton]

Originally Posted by PantsDants

So has a solution for the CEL under 3000 rpm on the stock ECU been found? Will there be a window switch included with the kit? The big selling point for me on this kit is that it can be safely run without requiring modification to the ECU.

There is no solution as of yet. Problem is the system is so far outside the stock load tables at low rpm it freaks out. We tried a map clamp but that didnt work. The maf reads so much air down there it doesn't know what to do without a tune which is to be expected



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[PantsDants]

Originally Posted by fenton

There is no solution as of yet. Problem is the system is so far outside the stock load tables at low rpm it freaks out. We tried a map clamp but that didnt work. The maf reads so much air down there it doesn't know what to do without a tune which is to be expected



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Thanks fenton. Do you know if development on that issue is still ongoing or if the production kit will require a tune?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by PantsDants

Thanks fenton. Do you know if development on that issue is still ongoing or if the production kit will require a tune?

Well here is the catch. If you don't mind a cel it works fine above 2500 rpm with the stock tune. Very safe afrs. But you will get a cel.... It does go away after a couple cycles however if you go wot down low it will go again.

If you go wot in 4th or 5th at 3500 or so you will probably get it as well because of 3 to 4 psi at that rpm.

As of now this kit really is best with a tune as it let's you enjoy it worry free and I hate having a cel on my dash

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[fenton]

I'm going to go ahead and say a tune should be accounted for in this kit because when I ran the Visconti tune it was quite lean.

That is the stock stage 1 Visconti not one tailored for this kit.

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[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

I don't know where the 1.6 psi figure comes from. Can you provide a citation? I believe 4.0 psi has been referenced by Fenton and it is thought that 5.0 psi would be achievable at SL.

Also keep in mind that the eCharger does not have any parasitic loss at the crank nor any significant pumping loss through an intercooler. Depending on the SC design, the parasitic loss on a SC is somewhere in the 1.0 to 2.0 equivalent psi range. So yes, the eCharger can have an equivalent effect of a SC in the 7.0 psi range. Where a SC is superior is at during increasing RPM, a SC makes more boost as rpm's increase where the eCharger makes the same boot over the entire range.

We are all looking for installation updates from the 4 new beta testers, some of which are at or close to sea level.

I got the 4.0 - 1.6 psi numbers from this thread. I believe it was from Fenton's dyno run and describes the amount of boost at low rpm and the boost available at redline. This e-charger flows max cfm immediately which is enough to generate 4 psi at low rpm but can't maintain that pressure as the engine's airflow demands increase at higher rpm, so pressure drops to 1.6 psi.

Anyway, I'm also looking forward to seeing more data on this e-charger. I don't remember how much (if any) altitude correction was applied to Fenton's dyno results. Maybe he can clear that up. :happy0180:

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

I got the 4.0 - 1.6 psi numbers from this thread. I believe it was from Fenton's dyno run and describes the amount of boost at low rpm and the boost available at redline. This e-charger flows max cfm immediately which is enough to generate 4 psi at low rpm but can't maintain that pressure as the engine's airflow demands increase at higher rpm, so pressure drops to 1.6 psi.

Anyway, I'm also looking forward to seeing more data on this e-charger. I don't remember how much (if any) altitude correction was applied to Fenton's dyno results. Maybe he can clear that up. :happy0180:

I don't know how the correction factor works on the dyno but I know it accomidates for the pressure and humidity/ heat.

The thing the dyno cannot compensate for is the drop in boost pressure experienced at this altitude.

At sea level you would be making more boost and even more power.

When I made 1.6 psi at peak power... people at sea level would probably be making 2 psi or a little more so even more power than I

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[projek_01]

love how you guys raced in front of the calgary police headquarters lol

[fenton]

Originally Posted by projek_01

love how you guys raced in front of the calgary police headquarters lol

Shhhhh we raced to the speed limit

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[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by fenton

I don't know how the correction factor works on the dyno but I know it accomidates for the pressure and humidity/ heat.

The thing the dyno cannot compensate for is the drop in boost pressure experienced at this altitude.

At sea level you would be making more boost and even more power.

When I made 1.6 psi at peak power... people at sea level would probably be making 2 psi or a little more so even more power than I

Actually, if the dyno operator added correction for atmospheric pressure, that would compensate for the loss of boost pressure in the intake manifold. Your result would then be corrected to match a sea level result.


BTW, what is this fetish that people have for aftermarket intakes??? The stock airbox is good for at least 300 whp and provides the most accurate MAF readings. Going aftermarket adds zero power and requires a tune just to correct the MAF measurement error introduced by the new intake. Makes no sense to me...

[fenton]

It can't compensate for boost that isn't read though if I'm not mistaken. Maybe @Toma can answer better.

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[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by fenton

It can't compensate for boost that isn't read though if I'm not mistaken. Maybe @Toma can answer better.

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Sure it can. All it requires is adding a correction factor. Basically the CF makes your hp and tq read higher so that the result can be compared to dyno results taken at sea level, for instance.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Sure it can. All it requires is adding a correction factor. Basically the CF makes your hp and tq read higher so that the result can be compared to dyno results taken at sea level, for instance.

Okay fair enough I don't think this one incorporated that to my knowledge though.

I took the buddy with the stage 1 BMW 135i for another drive tonight and he was thoroughly impressed. He said that he was NEVER pushed into his seat like he was tonight. He said it gathers so much speed so quickly. Before we knew it we were flying at 130km/hr .

For him to be impressed that is a very good sign!

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[Robftss]

Dynos are corrected to standard density @ SL.

What is relevant is that the bone stock HP/TQ runs and the boosted HP/TQ runs were done ~ 1 hr apart on the rollers without removing the car.

A 100% before and after percent differential , aka true gains with identical density corrections.

Rob

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by fenton

Okay fair enough I don't think this one incorporated that to my knowledge though.

I took the buddy with the stage 1 BMW 135i for another drive tonight and he was thoroughly impressed. He said that he was NEVER pushed into his seat like he was tonight. He said it gathers so much speed so quickly. Before we knew it we were flying at 130km/hr .

For him to be impressed that is a very good sign!

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We have our answer, thanks to Rob. Not a big deal but I think it best to drop the "it'll make much more power at sea level" nonsense. I have nothing vested in this e-charger one way or another but simply for the sake of factual accuracy I am compelled from time to time to attempt to correct certain exaggerations and falsehoods. I've seen quite a lot of speculation recently that this e-charger will produce 230+ whp in the near future, @MSL, with exhaust mods, etc. and I think it best for all concerned to squash such BS quickly. Exaggerated expectations like this will only lead to disappointment and this thing is impressive enough without fantasies of it magically matching the more expensive traditional offerings from Innovate, Vortech, AVO, etc.

If I may offer a suggestion. IMO one of the best selling points for this e-charger would be not needing a tune. If you do need a tune, better find something a lot cheaper than ECUtek. The true appeal of this e-charger is the low cost but add in a $750 non-transferrable tune and it ain't that inexpensive anymore.

What are the CELs that keep coming up? Perhaps given more time the ECU might adapt to the changes. Maybe a simple voltage clamp might suffice? I think this is well worth investigating.

I ran a custom turbo setup on a 2008 Scion XB with a very similar Denso ECU. It made 6 psi waste gate limited boost, added 115whp & 115wtq, used 3" cat-less exhaust, custom intake/MAF pipe and 20% larger fuel injectors. I ran this setup for 4 years and 40k miles with no CELs. Nice safe 11.5:1 AFR in open loop and passed emissions testing in MD twice. No tune, no piggyback.

As for your buddy with the substantially faster 135i, he is a polite friend to say such nice things about your e-charged FRS. I'd much prefer a 1/4 mile time slip or a 0-100mph video.