Moto IQ tests the KW V3...

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Everything is a balance though... once you run stickier tires you need more spring rate to keep the chassis under control and stay off the bump stops in corners.

On a pure street car, you're right, but for a car that sees dual duty you have to balance things out.

agreed. i know for my purposes (and probably 95% of people out there) the money would've been better spent on something else. i don't disagree that there is a benefit for some, i just believe that demographic is a lot smaller than some think. just bolting stuff on is of little help to anything, and can do more harm than good. it certainly did for me.

i think this article just illustrates that point.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

You are saying that your car doesn't move. What is wrong with it?

Car ownership is not 100% rational decision making. If someone thinks that fitting $700 Ebay special coilovers is the best thing ever then that's what they think. I track my car. The suspension upgrade alone has made a slight improvement to my lap time; I know full well I am the weakest link in the equation. Now, I get kick out of the fact that I have aftermarket suspension fitted. I like the firmer (not crashy) ride. When I talk to people I get ego stroked when I tell them what I have done to my car BUT it makes no difference in the long run because I am not racing; it makes no difference what lap times I post. There is only my ego involved when I can say I am faster than you.

This is part of car ownership.

that's kinda my point: it's more about conspicuous consumption than it is about improving vehicle dynamics, for most people. i've fallen prey to that before, and it basically resulted in a bunch of burnt money and a car that didn't ride well. ymmv, but i think most people fit in that camp.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by jamesm

agreed. i know for my purposes (and probably 95% of people out there) the money would've been better spent on something else. i don't disagree that there is a benefit for some, i just believe that demographic is a lot smaller than some think. just bolting stuff on is of little help to anything, and can do more harm than good. it certainly did for me.

i think this article just illustrates that point.

This whole point is why I would suggest springs or height only adjustable coilovers instead of fully adjustable coilovers to almost everyone.

I personally want Tarmac II's eventually, but they'll be set up by a local shop that has a great reputation with suspension work (height, corner balancing, alignment, etc). I know enough to know that I don't know enough about suspension tuning to do it totally alone.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by wparsons

This whole point is why I would suggest springs or height only adjustable coilovers instead of fully adjustable coilovers to almost everyone.

I personally want Tarmac II's eventually, but they'll be set up by a local shop that has a great reputation with suspension work (height, corner balancing, alignment, etc). I know enough to know that I don't know enough about suspension tuning to do it totally alone.

i think i'm going to go with the new st's. hopefully i can't mess that up if they're not adjustable

[qoncept]

I'll go a bit further off-topic with you guys.. I had a number of different (mostly adjustable) suspensions setups on my WRX and none of them ever really made me any faster. The best I found, certainly bang for the buck, was STi takeoffs. Tires, sway bars and alignments made a positive, tangible difference, but it turns out playing with spring rates and struts isn't something I'm good at.

And, in fact, I made so many changes to damper settings at events that I think I was probably doing more bad than good. At my first event in the BRZ (after a 5 year hiatus from autox) I had my tire pressure gauge, infrared thermometer and sprayer all ready to go. After my first run I took tossed them all of to the side and decided to leave my tires alone and just concentrate on driving.

[CSG Mike]

We offer damping adjustment services

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

We offer damping adjustment services

What's involved in that? Are you just looking at spring rates or do you ride with or drive the car? That would probably be the way for me to go but I'll be sticking with the stock struts until I can't help but spend the money.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by qoncept

What's involved in that? Are you just looking at spring rates or do you ride with or drive the car? That would probably be the way for me to go but I'll be sticking with the stock struts until I can't help but spend the money.

Damper adjustment would be just that: adjusting the dampers as best as we can, given the existing setup.

We don't offer adjustment for 1-way dampers; it's simply not justified when the suspension lacks proper adjustments to really match compression and rebound to the springs chosen. With a 1 way damper, there's typically only 1 "right" spring, and everything else will end up over or under damped.

We would be riding in or driving the car; the adjustments are done based on feel. Our butt dynos are pretty well calibrated

The most common response we get when people ride in our car, or cars that we set up, is that the ride is so smooth. They're always surprised that the spring rates we typically use in our applications are so high because the ride would indicate otherwise.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by wparsons

This whole point is why I would suggest springs or height only adjustable coilovers instead of fully adjustable coilovers to almost everyone.

I personally want Tarmac II's eventually, but they'll be set up by a local shop that has a great reputation with suspension work (height, corner balancing, alignment, etc). I know enough to know that I don't know enough about suspension tuning to do it totally alone.

But that's the best part! Trial and error, applying theories and seeing it in the real world, etc.

[Dezoris]

They lost me in the article when they used staggered wheels for looks.
Been having this debate with cars for years.

Tires and driver make the biggest difference with most cars. The FR-S/BRZ it's the biggest difference. Probably less than 10% of people who buy suspension setups have them properly "tuned" to actually go faster on a track. And what is good for a track is rarely if ever good for the street and vice versa.

Drive more, change less.

As mentioned setting up suspensions is so often driver dependent getting the "right" setup is like chasing fairies.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

They lost me in the article when they used staggered wheels for looks.
Been having this debate with cars for years.

Tires and driver make the biggest difference with most cars. The FR-S/BRZ it's the biggest difference. Probably less than 10% of people who buy suspension setups have them properly "tuned" to actually go faster on a track. And what is good for a track is rarely if ever good for the street and vice versa.

Drive more, change less.

As mentioned setting up suspensions is so often driver dependent getting the "right" setup is like chasing fairies.

Aaron's a pretty solid driver... he's spent some time in the CSG BRZ, as well as Robispec's car.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Aaron's a pretty solid driver... he's spent some time in the CSG BRZ, as well as Robispec's car.

Was he faster in those cars?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Was he faster in those cars?

Different tracks, but if you normalize the time to the track, far faster.