Moto IQ tests the KW V3...

[CSG Mike]

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ith-Nitto.aspx

Thoughts?

As usual, @robispec shows that a well set up car is FAST.

[Racecomp Engineering]

That shows 2 things:

1. Tire compound is the #2 difference in going fast (after driving skill).

2. It's important to look at the full system. You can't just slap on parts and expect to be faster. Set-up is HUGE.

Choosing appropriate spring rates for the tires you're using is a pretty big deal. Dialing in alignment and damper settings (especially on a 2 way like KW V3) can have a huge effect on laptimes as well. I'd love to know if they played with either of those in their testing or if they were still using the same settings for both sets of tires.

Goes back to something Moto-P said on here about using stiff coilover spring rates on stock tires...you're gonna have a bad time. You're easily overloading the tires and could end up with less grip than you started with.

- Andy

[Turdinator]

I wonder why they didn't do a lap with the NITTOs installed on the stock car to isolate the effect of the KW V3s?

[wparsons]

A magazine tested one stock, stock + V3's (with an alignment) and stock + V3's and 245/40 RS3's.

V3's alone were 1.5 seconds faster than stock, with RS3's it picked up another 3 seconds per lap.

http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-13...e/viewall.html

[Acree]

Simply an example of someone who doesn't understand how to properly setup a car...

[jamesm]

i have a hard time believing that these aftermarket companies are much better than toyobaru when it comes to suspension setup, at least for real world driving.

i could see doing something like this if i were trailering the car to the track every weekend, but the stock suspension on the twins is pretty damn good. probably the best thing about the car in stock form. why mess with the good parts when there are so many other things that need more immediate attention (like the complete lack of acceleration)?

i learned my lesson once buying multi-thousand dollar suspension bits. it seems everyone that reviews them on forums doesn't want to admit that they're not good enough to tell the damn difference. top dollar ohlins stuff, just felt stiffer to me. i'm not a race car driver, but then most of us aren't.

my point is that based on my experience, i wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that there was little real improvement if any. hell even the better example sited below suggests that tires (which you'll be needing at some point anyway) are twice as effective as $2k+ coilovers.

[jamesm]

i have a hard time believing that these aftermarket companies are much better than toyobaru when it comes to suspension setup, at least for real world driving.

i could see doing something like this if i were trailering the car to the track every weekend, but the stock suspension on the twins is pretty damn good. probably the best thing about the car in stock form. why mess with the good parts when there are so many other things that need more immediate attention (like the complete lack of acceleration)?

i learned my lesson once buying multi-thousand dollar suspension bits. it seems everyone that reviews them on forums doesn't want to admit that they're not good enough to tell the damn difference. top dollar ohlins stuff, just felt stiffer to me. i'm not a race car driver, but then most of us aren't.

my point is that based on my experience, i wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that there was little real improvement if any. hell even the better example sited below suggests that tires (which you'll be needing at some point anyway) are twice as effective as $2k+ coilovers.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i have a hard time believing that these aftermarket companies are much better than toyobaru when it comes to suspension setup, at least for real world driving.

i could see doing something like this if i were trailering the car to the track every weekend, but the stock suspension on the twins is pretty damn good. probably the best thing about the car in stock form. why mess with the good parts when there are so many other things that need more immediate attention (like the complete lack of acceleration)?

i learned my lesson once buying multi-thousand dollar suspension bits. it seems everyone that reviews them on forums doesn't want to admit that they're not good enough to tell the damn difference. top dollar ohlins stuff, just felt stiffer to me. i'm not a race car driver, but then most of us aren't.

my point is that based on my experience, i wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that there was little real improvement if any. hell even the better example sited below suggests that tires (which you'll be needing at some point anyway) are twice as effective as $2k+ coilovers.

Did you have them properly installed, cornerbalanced, and dialed in for you?

The dialing in part seems to be the HARDEST part to get done. There are a scant handfull of shops that offer a service to dial in dampers at a consumer level; we're one of them.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Did you have them properly installed, cornerbalanced, and dialed in for you?

The dialing in part seems to be the HARDEST part to get done. There are a scant handfull of shops that offer a service to dial in dampers at a consumer level; we're one of them.

Not at all. I had an alignment done afterwards, and fiddled with the damping adjusters a bunch, but to be honest it just felt stiffer to me. This is on a miata. Its not that the car handled any worse, just that it was a lot less comfortable and really did more harm than good to the daily fun factor.

I understand there's a whole voodoo science behind suspension tuning and some guys can do awesome things with it, but Im not one of them.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by jamesm

(like the complete lack of acceleration)

You are saying that your car doesn't move. What is wrong with it?

Car ownership is not 100% rational decision making. If someone thinks that fitting $700 Ebay special coilovers is the best thing ever then that's what they think. I track my car. The suspension upgrade alone has made a slight improvement to my lap time; I know full well I am the weakest link in the equation. Now, I get kick out of the fact that I have aftermarket suspension fitted. I like the firmer (not crashy) ride. When I talk to people I get ego stroked when I tell them what I have done to my car BUT it makes no difference in the long run because I am not racing; it makes no difference what lap times I post. There is only my ego involved when I can say I am faster than you.

This is part of car ownership.

[OICU812]

I lowered my car cause I didn't like gap. If that's all it did I'm fine with that 100%. It doesent always have to be about expectations of an entirely different car does it?

[ultra]

Nice try but the article as-is strikes me as being inconclusive or even misinformation as far as the coilovers go since their setup changes were all over the place. Given their level of technical know-how I expect much better things from MotoIQ.

If they really want to publish an article claiming to test the coilovers they ought to have at least put in the effort to do the thing as a proper, scientific test:

- Upgrade the brakes first in order to rule them out as a factor.
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car.
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car with tires alone (and no janky staggered setups)
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car with coilovers alone.
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car with coilovers and tires.

Even so, stuff like alignment and fine tuning the damper settings (which is a big part of a 2 way adjustable damper after all) would play a part not to mention tire pressure, tire temp and tire wear. Lots of factors to consider. Still, with some proper controls in place it could have at least been a pseudo-scientific test.

I don't even own V3s so it's not like I'm some butthurt fanboy here either.

[djdnz]

Originally Posted by ultra

Nice try but the article as-is strikes me as being inconclusive or even misinformation as far as the coilovers go since their setup changes were all over the place. Given their level of technical know-how I expect much better things from MotoIQ.

If they really want to publish an article claiming to test the coilovers they ought to have at least put in the effort to do the thing as a proper, scientific test:

- Upgrade the brakes first in order to rule them out as a factor.
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car.
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car with tires alone (and no janky staggered setups)
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car with coilovers alone.
- Set a lap time in a bone stock car with coilovers and tires.

Even so, stuff like alignment and fine tuning the damper settings (which is a big part of a 2 way adjustable damper after all) would play a part not to mention tire pressure, tire temp and tire wear. Lots of factors to consider. Still, with some proper controls in place it could have at least been a pseudo-scientific test.

I don't even own V3s so it's not like I'm some butthurt fanboy here either.

Running a square tire on a staggered wheel setup and 225's on a 9.5 screams I'm here to do science.

I thought MotoIQ was a bit more thorough than this, but I guess I was buying into the hype that they knew what they were doing before now. This article was clearly lip service to a few brands, yay sponsors.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Not at all. I had an alignment done afterwards, and fiddled with the damping adjusters a bunch, but to be honest it just felt stiffer to me. This is on a miata. Its not that the car handled any worse, just that it was a lot less comfortable and really did more harm than good to the daily fun factor.

I understand there's a whole voodoo science behind suspension tuning and some guys can do awesome things with it, but Im not one of them.

Everything is a balance though... once you run stickier tires you need more spring rate to keep the chassis under control and stay off the bump stops in corners.

On a pure street car, you're right, but for a car that sees dual duty you have to balance things out.