HELP with understanding Brakes upgrade path

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bear89103

What i'm feeling right now is not that I'm skidding. It's just that when I depress the brake pedal, I feel the car slowing at a pace that's slower, so I feel I have to brake earlier. I would like the proverbial "stop on a dime". I have a decent set of tires. I am running a set of sumitomo HTR Ziii 245/40r18.

For instance, when compared to my sister's totally stock Nissan Cube, when I'm driving, and I press down on the brake pedal, it's almost as if my body is launched forward a little because it brakes so quickly and stops fairly immediately.

The Cube's brakes are more boosted, meaning, when you push the pedal, the assist is much more aggressive; the pads are pressed "harder" for a given amount of pedal pressure.

The easiest way to "fix" this is to get a pad with more initial bite. The price of doing this, is that you're going to get more brake dust. Generally speaking, dust is proportional to bite.

The Carbotech pads suggest in post 6 have wheel-friendly brake dust. It's very easy to clean off, but they DO dust a lot.

Carbotech pads in order of increasing bite and dust:

1521
AX6
XP8
XP10
XP12
XP16
XP20

We run XP12 on the CSG BRZ, paired with the AP Racing Sprint kit. When the XP12 lose bedding (happens when we get the pretty warm but not super hot), we swap in 1521 until our next track day.

If you want increased bite, I'd recommend you try the AX6.

[Hanakuso]

I still have the XP12 brand new from CSG. I need to try those out someday..

S2K guys seem to love Carbotech pads

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by bear89103

What i'm feeling right now is not that I'm skidding. It's just that when I depress the brake pedal, I feel the car slowing at a pace that's slower, so I feel I have to brake earlier. I would like the proverbial "stop on a dime". I have a decent set of tires. I am running a set of sumitomo HTR Ziii 245/40r18.

For instance, when compared to my sister's totally stock Nissan Cube, when I'm driving, and I press down on the brake pedal, it's almost as if my body is launched forward a little because it brakes so quickly and stops fairly immediately.

It's funny, but I'm HAPPY the brakes aren't like a Nissan Cube, or Honda Accord, etc. Modulating brakes like that on track SUCKS. Our brakes are pretty linear and easy to modulate, unlike overassisted power brake setups in many other cars.

That higher bite due to pad or overboosted assist doesn't mean you are stopping faster, just that less pedal is needed for a given braking force.

[bear89103]

This is perfect information for me. I now have a really educated understanding of it. Thank you everyone who contributed to posting information for me. I really appreciate it!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

I still have the XP12 brand new from CSG. I need to try those out someday..

S2K guys seem to love Carbotech pads

The XP series are REALLY easy to modulate compared to most high mu pads.

I still prefer metallic pads personally... our Project Mu 999's have arrived

We were using XP12 because they were readily available at the time.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The Cube's brakes are more boosted, meaning, when you push the pedal, the assist is much more aggressive; the pads are pressed "harder" for a given amount of pedal pressure.

The easiest way to "fix" this is to get a pad with more initial bite. The price of doing this, is that you're going to get more brake dust. Generally speaking, dust is proportional to bite.

The Carbotech pads suggest in post 6 have wheel-friendly brake dust. It's very easy to clean off, but they DO dust a lot.

Carbotech pads in order of increasing bite and dust:

1521
AX6
XP8
XP10
XP12
XP16
XP20

We run XP12 on the CSG BRZ, paired with the AP Racing Sprint kit. When the XP12 lose bedding (happens when we get the pretty warm but not super hot), we swap in 1521 until our next track day.

If you want increased bite, I'd recommend you try the AX6.

My own experienced with a couple of these pads:

I went to the XP-10s for a track day, then to 1521s when they started squealing badly on the street.

The XP-10s have great initial bite and great heat-handling capabilities. I loved them on the track. And after a day of hammering them on the track they were great on the street and as quiet as stock. But, since I couldn't get them up to temperature on the street they quickly started squealing.

So the 1521s went on. They have slightly more initial bite than stock and a very natural-feeling ramp-up on the braking force after that. I'm getting a tiny squeak every now and then as I come to a stop, but it's hardly mentionable. And I can get it to stop doing it for a while if I do one hard stop.

I haven't used the AX6, but from what I gather from the CarboTech website, and how I know AutoX drivers drive, it should have a really high initial bite, but will squeal a little on the street.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

My own experienced with a couple of these pads:

I went to the XP-10s for a track day, then to 1521s when they started squealing badly on the street.

The XP-10s have great initial bite and great heat-handling capabilities. I loved them on the track. And after a day of hammering them on the track they were great on the street and as quiet as stock. But, since I couldn't get them up to temperature on the street they quickly started squealing.

So the 1521s went on. They have slightly more initial bite than stock and a very natural-feeling ramp-up on the braking force after that. I'm getting a tiny squeak every now and then as I come to a stop, but it's hardly mentionable. And I can get it to stop doing it for a while if I do one hard stop.

I haven't used the AX6, but from what I gather from the CarboTech website, and how I know AutoX drivers drive, it should have a really high initial bite, but will squeal a little on the street.

Draco, PM me your e-mail, and I'll email you OUR set of bedding procedures; they do vary a bit from Carbotechs.

Using our procedure, we're able to eliminate virtually all the noise; you'll get that tiny squeak every now and then, but that's it.

We ran XP10 full time, both street and track, before we put on our BBK.

[Draco-REX]

I am VERY easy on my brakes on the street. I don't think I could keep a set of track pads bedded. When I pulled the XP-10s they looked like they had brake dust building up UNDER them.