why the wrx is better than your 86

[whaap]

Yeah, it's too bad that Indy and F-1 cars don't drive manuals like those good ole' boys do in NASCAR. Obviously they don't know what's more efficient. No - wait, they also crank start their motors too don't they. However, they use electric cranks and not crank them the way real men did.

[SUB-FT86]

I also drove a go kart that you couldn't shift and it was way more fun to drive than any manual car I ever touched. I care more about handling, steering feel, chassis feel, tires(grip), and power more than a clutch!

[FnFast]

AWD is for people who are scared or driving. But if a manual car is what makes a great car... good thing I have a Fast and Furious transmission.

[Nevermore]

States coming with an auto makes the car not a sports car. Manual only sedan = sports car. Since when do sports cars have 4 doors? If anything it's a sports sedan. Nice try though.

[5th 86]

Only place where awd is far better then anything else is when you need to go faster then common sense tells you too, in a snow storm on the hwy. Or you need to stop light race in winter. I have had 2 awd turbos and those are the main benefits.

[whataboutbob]

Auto boosted on Innovate SC on Mustang Dyno @ 216.9HP 178TQ FTW. Think Autos suck, meet me on an AutoX course...

[The359]

Originally Posted by whaap

Yeah, it's too bad that Indy and F-1 cars don't drive manuals like those good ole' boys do in NASCAR. Obviously they don't know what's more efficient. No - wait, they also crank start their motors too don't they. However, they use electric cranks and not crank them the way real men did.

IndyCar and F1 are manuals, they're just "semi-automatic". IndyCar even has a clutch on the steering wheel for the driver to manually control when leaving pit stops.

[Symmetrical]

Guys, just stop... just resist the urge to reply... lol

[m.wood0213]

Originally Posted by whaap

I'm curious to know how their offering the option has any impact on you or the car that you bought.

because the only thing available for me was an auto. I like the auto but I would've bought the manual if I could.

[Giccin]

Haven't used this in awhile... lol

[The359]

http://petroleummuseum.org/gallery/Chaparral2.html

I’ve heard [Jim Hall] say that the big advantage of the automatic transmission is that it lets the Chaparral driver use his free hand to wave at the other drivers as he passes them!

-Roger Penske

Chaparral developing a clutchless, semi-automatic transmission for racing cars in 1963, and going on to win numerous SCCA races.

http://petroleummuseum.org/Gallery/Chaparral2D.html

Chaparral 2D, won the 1000km of Nurburgring in 1966 with a 2-speed automatic.

http://petroleummuseum.org/Gallery/Chaparral2F.html

Chaparral 2F, won the BOAC 500 at Brands Hatch in 1967 with a 3-speed automatic.

[suaveflooder]

lol, at OP. Some of the fastest sports cars/exotics are auto. A computer will shift a hell of a lot faster than a person can...there is a reason why the F1 cars are auto. It's far superior to a manual gear box.

My buddy put a "no lift" shift box in his cobra. My SMG M3 could still shift in 1/2 the time...he's one of the best driver's I've seen, and I'm one of the worst, lol

[The359]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

lol, at OP. Some of the fastest sports cars/exotics are auto. A computer will shift a hell of a lot faster than a person can...there is a reason why the F1 cars are auto. It's far superior to a manual gear box.

My buddy put a "no lift" shift box in his cobra. My SMG M3 could still shift in 1/2 the time...he's one of the best driver's I've seen, and I'm one of the worst, lol

See, those are not automatics. You're confusing the terminology.

* Manual - You have full control of what gear you are in, and can go to any gear at any time you want. You also have control over the clutch. This is a traditional setup with a clutch pedal and H-pattern.

* Sequential Manual - You have some control of what gear you are in, such that it is in sequence. You also have control over the clutch, although it is usually not needed due to the ratios used in the transmission. This is a traditional setup on a motorcycle, and is used in many race cars, specifically GT cars.

* Semiautomatic - You have some control of what gear you are in, such that it is in sequence. A computer controls your clutch. Various forms exist, such as Dual Clutch Gearbox (Volkswagen DSG, Porsche PDK, etc.) or Electrohydraulic Gearbox (BMW SMG, Audi R-Tronic, Lamborghini E-gear, etc.). Some semiautomatic gearboxes will also allow you to relinquish all control to a computer, although it is still physically changing gears for you.

* Manumatic - You have some control of what gear you are in, such that it is in sequence and you are in a computer mode that allows driver input. When in normal Drive mode, you have no control over the gear and the computer controls everything. There is no clutch as the transmission is handled by a hydraulic fluid, which is in turn controlled by a computer. This system is usually seen with the name Tiptronic or some other sort of -tronic name. A manumatic is basically an automatic with the ability for the driver to override the computer's presets.

* Automatic - You can have some control of what gear you are in only by limiting the transmission to certain low gears (1st, 2nd, Overdrive, etc.). When in normal Drive, you have no control over the gear you are in and the computer controls everything. Again, there is no clutch as the transmission is handled by hydraulic fluid, which is in turn controlled by the computer.

* Continiously Variable Transmission (CVT) - This transmission has no gears as it is essentially a large belt or chain that is stretched based on RPMs. Some CVT transmissions will offer the feel of "gears", but these are simply presets on the location of the shafts, allowing them to build revs before switching to the next preset. Everything is controlled by computers.

A Formula One car has a mix of a sequential manual and semiautomatic. A clutch "paddle" exists on the steering wheel for getting the car moving from a standstill, mostly because of the ban on launch control. After getting into 1st gear, the computer takes over clutch control and there is no need for the driver to use the paddle any more.

The 86 twins come with two transmissions - Manual or Manumatic. That said, the Manumatic in the 86 is set up to act like, and acclaimed to be as similar in feel to a Semiautomatic as you can get.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by The359

See, those are not automatics. You're confusing the terminology.

* Manual - You have full control of what gear you are in, and can go to any gear at any time you want. You also have control over the clutch. This is a traditional setup with a clutch pedal and H-pattern.

* Semiautomatic - You have some control of what gear you are in, such that it is sequence. A computer controls your clutch. Various forms exist, such as Dual Clutch Gearbox (Volkswagen DSG, Porsche PDK, etc.), Electrohydraulic Gearbox (BMW SMG, Audi R-Tronic, Lamborghini e-gear, etc.), and various racing sequential gearboxes.

* Manumatic - You have some control of what gear you are in, such that it is in sequence and you are in a computer mode that allows driver input. When in fully automatic mode, you have no control over the gear and the computer controls everything. There is no clutch as the transmission is handled by a hydraulic fluid, which is in turn controlled by a computer. This system is usually seen with the name Tiptronic or some other sort of -tronic name.

* Automatic - You can have some control of what gear you are in only by limiting the transmission to certain low gears (1st, 2nd, Overdrive, etc.). When in normal Drive, you have no control over the gear you are in. Again, there is no clutch as the transmission is handled by hydraulic fluid, which is in turn controlled by the computer.

A Formula One car has a semi-automatic gearbox. It is superior to a true manual because computers and materials have advanced enough that it is quicker to shift gears this way than to have the driver do it. However, Formula One cars do still have a basic clutch on the steering wheel for launching from a standstill, due to the ban on launch control and the need for the driver to better control the start. Almost all modern racing cars have semiautomatic transmissions because of the reliability and speed at which they can shift.

So the FRS/BRZ's are not automatics? Also, what most people consider an "automatic" is something that can be put in an "automatic" mode. Most of the transmissions listed can do that. So I hardly "confused" terminology. I simply used what most people would consider an automatic. You can get technical all you want.

This was always a "fun" debate on M3forums "Technically", an SMG isn't an automatic, but it sure as hell can be driven like one