who's afraid of buying the first Gen?

[aesthetect]

Originally Posted by syldrin

stock 17x7's are probably heavier than a good set of 17x9's say an enkie RPF1

rpf1s are exceptionally light, ESPECIALLY for the money. you can bet those oem 17x7s (with the lengths theyve been to to reduce weight on this thing, id be surprised if they were more than 16lbs) are lighter than most of the sub $1500 aftermarket, and for sure any rota, which seems to be about 80% of the wheel market these days.

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

You're welcome for being one of the insane ones. If it wasn't for people like me that are going to buy the first gen and work out the kinks you'd never buy one

yup, thank god for you early adopters for letting teh rest of us sit back and wait for prices to drop :happy0180:

Originally Posted by Buggy51

A quick question to those with a better history than I do, but what first generation car from Toyota/Scion and Subaru have had problems? I'm not talking about drastic changes in performance the following year, but overall quirks.

what causes problems in first gens is new technologies being introduced, such as the high pressure fuel pumps used in the bmw N54, limping all sorts of X35s. both subaru and toyota have a good record in this respect, but i also havent seen a lot of vastly different technologies introduced, besides cam phasing, which afaik went well for both. the only thing i look at is the parallel fuel injection system, and that mostly cause i come from the subaru camp so dont really know toyotas history with it, ie how different this is from previous versions (has toyota released cars with BOTH direct injection and port injection? SEE EDIT BELOW). subaru purportedly did the majority of the engine development, but im sure in this respect got all the help they asked for from toyota. however, i could see this being a problem in the STi version, depending on how aggressive they get, as i am beginning to think after release of these base models the collaboration between teh OEMs will dwindle.

EDIT finally some of my poking around paid off on the matter and found history on this D4-S system

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine

The 2GR-FSE is a 3.5L engine used in the Lexus IS, and GS 350, incorporate Toyota's latest D4-S twin injection fuel system. This system combines direct injection with traditional port injection. Using direct injection and port injection simultaneously facilitates more precise mixing of air and fuel under low and medium load conditions for greater efficiency, while high load conditions dictate the use of direct injection alone for maximum power. The 2GR-FSE engine is rated at 309 PS (227 kW; 305 hp) at 6,400 RPM and 38.4 kg·m (377 N·m; 278 ft·lbf) at 4,800 RPM. The engine's service weight is 174 kg.

The 2GR-FSE was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009.

id say that last bit is a pretty strong indication of a good, solid system

that would eliminate any fears i would have regarding early adoption, although this engine will be mixing subaru's AVCS with the D4-S, which is a first (wonder why AVCS over VVTi?). but still, that seems to suggest most potential problems would be integration/control/ecu related. but personally ill wait to see what the STi/TRD look like as im nominally cross shopping with cayman, lotus; but would definitely prefer to see some NA performance versions, even at the expense of peak power.

[old blue]

I had one of the first STI's off the boat. 90000 miles and absolutely no driveline problems.

Ditto for one of the first Preludes, and for one of the first Ducati 916's, one of the first Yamaha R1's; Cayman was bought used, though, but had no problems.

I wonder how many of the people saying no will ever buy a new one, period.

[blur]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Its fun just kickin it with friends while we work on cars (with beers and BBQ of course), i know im responsible for getting some friends to go to UTI because i rubbed off on them. Lots of them are better than i am at this sort of stuff now and its me that asks for their help once in a while.

I called UTI and asked if they had any racing programs outside of Nascar... their rep didn't even know what Le Mans was. That's when I hung up

[dwcnmv]

Originally Posted by old blue

I had one of the first STI's off the boat. 90000 miles and absolutely no driveline problems.

Ditto for one of the first Preludes, and for one of the first Ducati 916's, one of the first Yamaha R1's; Cayman was bought used, though, but had no problems.

I wonder how many of the people saying no will ever buy a new one, period.

You live my ideal life.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by blur

I called UTI and asked if they had any racing programs outside of Nascar... their rep didn't even know what Le Mans was. That's when I hung up

UTI is a very american school, and people who get into the manufacturer programs do very well and get paid nicely. But the racing programs..NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR..and possibly Indy cars. Anything else is an entirely different dimension to them.

[Max Schnell]

Manufacturers tend to do slight adjustments to improve the breed within a short few years from the first model year of a completely new model. The more problems the quicker the adjustments it seems. First new models of a completely new car tend to see adjustments the fastest from my observation.

I doubt we will see huge changes in this car within 3 years but what I know for sure is the the first year guys will be stuck with whatever the manufacturer got wrong the first time around. (this is my main reason to not buy a first year of a completely new model)

Happends with any manufacturer not just Toyota or Subaru. Also, in order to keep the buyers interested most manufacturers do some type of small upgrades over the span of the life cycle to make the cars more appealing (and jacking up the price). Whether it is better trim, more power, or cosmetics.

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by RYU

Depends if you're willing to pay extra for the STi. The reason I like this car so much is partly because of what you get for under $25k (I hope!). I'm not sure if at $30k+ i'd be willing to pay for a FI version.

It's also tough to say if a FI version will be out for this at all. Autoblog said when this motor was designed it resulted in simply no room for a turbo where traditional boxer turbos were placed. It's also a new motor with 12.5:1 compression. That is not FI friendly at all. They'd likely have to drop the compression and package it with a weirdly mounted turbo. That's basically a significant redesign.

Another option is to go SC. TRD has a strong history of using Magnuson for thier SC (I have one in my Tacoma). Packaging wise, that seems more logical but they still have to deal with the high compression issue. That won't be so easy for the dealer to handle since all TRD SC units I know of are dealer installed not factory installed.

I think FI isn't until way way way down the line.. maybe after 4th yr at least and will require engine internals to be changed.

I read something entirely different. Wasn't there a thread before saying that it was odd in terms of engine layout that there was ample room left for what appears to be an intercooler?

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

UTI is a very american school, and people who get into the manufacturer programs do very well and get paid nicely. But the racing programs..NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR..and possibly Indy cars. Anything else is an entirely different dimension to them.

I thought UTI was something they taught kids in medical school...