How cheap would the factory ~250hp 86/FRS/BRZ need to be for you to trade in?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by hanabie

lol 250hp! You are really looking into another 35k-40k msrp. There is no way going to be sub 31k msrp. keep dreaming

So you're saying it's ridiculous to think that an automaker like Subaru could release a faster version for less than $160 PER horsepower (assuming an $8k premium)? You do realize that Porsche charges around $11k to go from a Cayman to a Cayman S (50 hp difference).

So according to you the Porsche business model is the normal one. Whereas in reality they're the exception.

[RurumariGhost]

Originally Posted by hmong337

I hope they never plan to turbocharge it... that would kill the value of my newly purchased frs. Kind of like owning a nonsuper mr2 vs the supers.

There i fixed it for you

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So you're saying it's ridiculous to think that an automaker like Subaru could release a faster version for less than $160 PER horsepower (assuming an $8k premium)? You do realize that Porsche charges around $11k to go from a Cayman to a Cayman S (50 hp difference).

So according to you the Porsche business model is the normal one. Whereas in reality they're the exception.

Yeah, I am with you. Anything over $34K or so would be too much. With a $5K markup over the Limited, it would be right at $34K with destination.

That said, Subaru and Toyota may just skip supercharger/turbo and keep it around $31K and you get things like better tires, air intake, better exhaust, better suspension (sway bars), tuned ECU, etc. Maybe a 20-30hp increase at most. But still "faster".

[SCharged]

I personally don't think they'll be making a turbo variant for the reasons mentionned above re WRX and STI fighting. In N-A I also doubt Scion would be selling a 35+K car.

However, if they do in fact build it, I'd expect pricing close to something like a golf R. With ''similar'' performance and price at 25k, the fr-s and GTI are direct competitors in their segment (ref. to all the threads about cross shoppers). It would then only make sense to go and fight the R if a higher output version comes out..

However, wouldn't it make more sense for them to skip any HO fr-s and directly jump to a 40-45k supra?? And in that way also not alienate early 86 buyers? A lexus badged fr-s would also make sense if a higher output version does come. But then aain, development costs of anything that would be needed to differentiate them.

[WolfpackS2k]

Personally I don't think they really care about "alienating" anyone, and I don't think many customers will even care that much. Did people get all pissy when Ford debuted the Coyote engine for the Mustang GT, or when BMW replaced the 330i with the 335i? Not too bad from what I saw.

Originally Posted by thill

Yeah, I am with you. Anything over $34K or so would be too much. With a $5K markup over the Limited, it would be right at $34K with destination.

That said, Subaru and Toyota may just skip supercharger/turbo and keep it around $31K and you get things like better tires, air intake, better exhaust, better suspension (sway bars), tuned ECU, etc. Maybe a 20-30hp increase at most. But still "faster".

I will agree that this scenario is much more likely to happen. However that is all stuff that anyone can do easily on their own, even without voiding the warranty. No real point to trading in for that unless you're the ultimate fanboi IMO.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by jamesm

I wouldn't buy factory forced induction. It's always better to just buy aftermarket from the start, Better components and you don't just end up buying two kits in the end. Lower stock compression would be nice, but pistons and rods are cheaper than depreciation.

Curious why not, Toyota has made many, many superchargers and they have been well.... good. I've had two of them on my Tundras pull like a beast.

[Whitigir]

I would still buy the Twin with FI and 250+ HP with 250+ Torque and staying at 2800 lbs for 40K. That is it. I don't think it is unreasonable and unfair, at all to neither consumers or the manufacturer

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Curious why not, Toyota has made many, many superchargers and they have been well.... good. I've had two of them on my Tundras pull like a beast.

OEMs have to make compromises that the aftermarket isn't subject to. It's why every factory turbo vehicle has a market for turbo upgrades. They tend to use small turbos and intercoolers where bigger ones will fit . In the end, you end up payin for all that stuff twice (once from the dealer and again from the aftermarket). Also, OEMs tend to use lowest-bidder parts. See the mazdaspeed mx-5 turbo as a perfect example.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by jamesm

OEMs have to make compromises that the aftermarket isn't subject to. It's why every factory turbo vehicle has a market for turbo upgrades. They tend to use small turbos and intercoolers where bigger ones will fit . In the end, you end up payin for all that stuff twice (once from the dealer and again from the aftermarket). Also, OEMs tend to use lowest-bidder parts. See the mazdaspeed mx-5 turbo as a perfect example.

Fair enough I was just saying had nothing but good luck with all my TRD superchargers in both performance and reliability and my trucks get driven very hard to say the least not always by choice. I understand this is not a truck, but the same science in design applies.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

I would still buy the Twin with FI and 250+ HP with 250+ Torque and staying at 2800 lbs for 40K. That is it. I don't think it is unreasonable and unfair, at all to neither consumers or the manufacturer

LOL, your statement works if you replace "250+ HP" with 300+ HP. Otherwise the car you're describing would make a new Porsche Cayman look like a screaming deal.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

LOL, your statement works if you replace "250+ HP" with 300+ HP. Otherwise the car you're describing would make a new Porsche Cayman look like a screaming deal.

lol Porsche Cayman is 52k+ MSRP .....that is 12k a part...no way

[WolfpackS2k]

But do you really think any automaker could justify selling a sports car for $40k with only an 11.2 lb/hp ratio? The only sports car company that gets away with that now is Porsche, and for good reason.

[mit_peid]

My friend just leased a 2014 Forester 2.0XT for $280/month (he haggled the crap out of Subaru). Edmunds' True Market Value for this new is $27,296. The 2.0XT is the same FA20 as ours but turbo-charged netting 250hp, with AWD, and a lame CVT transmission. If they can do the Forester 2.0XT for under $30K, I think the turbo-version of the twin can be around the the same ballpark. IMO, main reason they man not offer up the performance variant of the BRZ is because they wouldn't want to impact sales of the WRX. The R&D involved wouldn't be starting from scratch, but not sure how Toyota's DI tech would be impacted and how emissions would be impacted.

[autobrz]

I would just pay for an innovate intercooled supercharger and call it a day if I wanted 50hp that badly