Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Just curious, and I'm not trying to start an argument here, but how do you know what levels of timing advance was done on the various Vortech tunes as well as the one Innovate published? The dynos I've seen for Vortech Stage 1 kits are all around 250 whp. Which tuner do you consider to have a more conservative map, and do you have an example of their dyno?

I have asked multiple people who post their dynos which map they were using on their car for dynos, and almost all the Vortech dynos are showing their MAP 3 or 4 settings. (Perrin, Visconti) Most tuners will use MAP 1 as conservative, MAP 3 and 4 as more aggressive. Those are the MAPs with more timing advance/more power.

So in my case my MAP1 is about 50HP more than stock. With MAP4 its 80HP more than stock, but the timing advance shows knock at high RPM, so while yeah it looks good on a dyno sheet I would never drive around with that MAP. That was my point.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I have asked multiple people who post their dynos which map they were using on their car for dynos, and almost all the Vortech dynos are showing their MAP 3 or 4 settings. (Perrin, Visconti) Most tuners will use MAP 1 as conservative, MAP 3 and 4 as more aggressive. Those are the MAPs with more timing advance/more power.

So in my case my MAP1 is about 50HP more than stock. With MAP4 its 80HP more than stock, but the timing advance shows knock at high RPM, so while yeah it looks good on a dyno sheet I would never drive around with that MAP. That was my point.

Yeah, I drive almost solely in map 1, I like the safety margin and it feels plenty fast. I don't have any knock on any maps though.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Pete

Yeah, I drive almost solely in map 1, I like the safety margin and it feels plenty fast. I don't have any knock on any maps though.

Safe is good.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I have asked multiple people who post their dynos which map they were using on their car for dynos, and almost all the Vortech dynos are showing their MAP 3 or 4 settings. (Perrin, Visconti) Most tuners will use MAP 1 as conservative, MAP 3 and 4 as more aggressive. Those are the MAPs with more timing advance/more power.

So in my case my MAP1 is about 50HP more than stock. With MAP4 its 80HP more than stock, but the timing advance shows knock at high RPM, so while yeah it looks good on a dyno sheet I would never drive around with that MAP. That was my point.

If you are getting knock, I suggest submitting the logs to your tuner to get it taken care of. If there is a Map that knocks and you have 93 pumpgas available, I would have the tuner look at where it knocks and adjust fueling/ignition/cam timing or whatever else needs to be adjusted accordingly. All maps should be reliable with no knocking, there should be no reason to avoid using a certain map unless you do not have access to the correct fuel (Cali, countries where the highest is 91 or lower octane)

No reason why you can't run the most powerful map and have it be completely safe as well. The turbo guys are getting much more power output

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I have asked multiple people who post their dynos which map they were using on their car for dynos, and almost all the Vortech dynos are showing their MAP 3 or 4 settings. (Perrin, Visconti) Most tuners will use MAP 1 as conservative, MAP 3 and 4 as more aggressive. Those are the MAPs with more timing advance/more power.

So in my case my MAP1 is about 50HP more than stock. With MAP4 its 80HP more than stock, but the timing advance shows knock at high RPM, so while yeah it looks good on a dyno sheet I would never drive around with that MAP. That was my point.

Just an FYI - Visconti only has 2 maps on his Vortech tune. The maps are identical except #2 enables FFS and LC.

I'm still not convinced that his tune is using timing that is at an unsafe level. I'd love to see your data on this though as I'm currently using his tune and if there's potentially a problem with his timing being too aggressive for daily use, I'm open to considering steps to correct this. I have no knock detected on that tune, by the way.

As for the Innovate tune, what were the timing levels used for their dyno? Again, I'm trying to understand where the comparison is coming from - if Innovate is using conservative timing for their published dyno, and Visconti is using overly agressive timing for the dyno he's using on his sale thread, let's see the data and discuss what's safe and what isn't.

Also, to reclarify - I'm not picking a fight here, I truly want to make sure we're all properly advised and making appropriate decisions here, especially if one of the options on the table is considered to be unsafe.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Just an FYI - Visconti only has 2 maps on his Vortech tune. The maps are identical except #2 enables FFS and LC.

I'm still not convinced that his tune is using timing that is at an unsafe level. I'd love to see your data on this though as I'm currently using his tune and if there's potentially a problem with his timing being too aggressive for daily use, I'm open to considering steps to correct this. I have no knock detected on that tune, by the way.

As for the Innovate tune, what were the timing levels used for their dyno? Again, I'm trying to understand where the comparison is coming from - if Innovate is using conservative timing for their published dyno, and Visconti is using overly agressive timing for the dyno he's using on his sale thread, let's see the data and discuss what's safe and what isn't.

Also, to reclarify - I'm not picking a fight here, I truly want to make sure we're all properly advised and making appropriate decisions here, especially if one of the options on the table is considered to be unsafe.

No fight, no worries I want to actually get some correct information going, really sick of all generic statements. When posting dynos, I dont care about the numbers it's really all how the tuner set it up. The data is easy to manipulate.

Very interesting!! I have been collecting logs from people, and either someone had given me a custom tune from Visconti or it was a much earlier log? But his setup mirrored what I said. I also have logs from different Perrin users.

If you guys can please upload your logs from Different maps I want to include all this in my final review.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

If you are getting knock, I suggest submitting the logs to your tuner to get it taken care of. If there is a Map that knocks and you have 93 pumpgas available, I would have the tuner look at where it knocks and adjust fueling/ignition/cam timing or whatever else needs to be adjusted accordingly. All maps should be reliable with no knocking, there should be no reason to avoid using a certain map unless you do not have access to the correct fuel (Cali, countries where the highest is 91 or lower octane)

No reason why you can't run the most powerful map and have it be completely safe as well. The turbo guys are getting much more power output

Already submitted, Cough Cough, been waiting almost 3 weeks now for a response.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Already submitted, Cough Cough, been waiting almost 3 weeks now for a response.

frankly i don't know why people deal with that when FA20Club and others have a much better reputation for responsiveness. i would be livid if i gave someone $900 or whatever it costs and then got 'i don't have time for you, wait some indefinite period of time' as a response. there are other options out there...

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Already submitted, Cough Cough, been waiting almost 3 weeks now for a response.

Ouch.
Hopefully you get an update soon and you will have knock-free maps!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by jamesm

frankly i don't know why people deal with that when FA20Club and others have a much better reputation for responsiveness. i would be livid if i gave someone $900 or whatever it costs and then got 'i don't have time for you, wait some indefinite period of time' as a response. there are other options out there...

I've never had a problem communicating with Perrin. If I email Chris over there it seems like he gets back to me within an hour or so every time, and of course they always answer the phones during regular business hours.

Visconti is so busy I actually feel sorry for the guy sometimes. I have never heard anyone say they didn't like his tune though, it must be pretty good. I am still waiting for him to come out with a flex fuel kit and tune for my Vortech kit, that would be badass.

I guess I am just generally appreciative of all the tuners that have put time and work into making our cars that much better.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Pete

I've never had a problem communicating with Perrin. If I email Chris over there it seems like he gets back to me within an hour or so every time, and of course they always answer the phones during regular business hours.

Visconti is so busy I actually feel sorry for the guy sometimes. I have never heard anyone say they didn't like his tune though, it must be pretty good. I am still waiting for him to come out with a flex fuel kit and tune for my Vortech kit, that would be badass.

I guess I am just generally appreciative of all the tuners that have put time and work into making our cars that much better.

I already talked to Tony at FA20 as a backup to Perrin just in case. But my entire build was based around Perrin's support. So it's been a test in patience for me, I like to get things done right away.

Thing is its widely accepted from most people in the field that Perrin is a great tuner. Jeff is great to talk to, and Chris is a always responsive and helpful. Thing is these guys are not just here to tune cars they have a bigger business than that.

FA20Club is starting to get to that point too. The best tuners are all super busy, so it's one of those things as more people start needing help they are going to be more stretched thin.

We are mostly at the mercy of these guys now, and I don't like that feeling sometimes.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I already talked to Tony at FA20 as a backup to Perrin just in case. But my entire build was based around Perrin's support. So it's been a test in patience for me, I like to get things done right away.

Thing is its widely accepted from most people in the field that Perrin is a great tuner. Jeff is great to talk to, and Chris is a always responsive and helpful. Thing is these guys are not just here to tune cars they have a bigger business than that.

FA20Club is starting to get to that point too. The best tuners are all super busy, so it's one of those things as more people start needing help they are going to be more stretched thin.

We are mostly at the mercy of these guys now, and I don't like that feeling sometimes.

I agree completely. The only thing I can add is that scheduling face time with them will get you the best results. If you really want your car to run correctly and get the best results, then call one of the tuners up, schedule the time, and make the drive. It was worth it to have Visconti street tune mine, it would have been worth it to let LJ @ FullBlown dyno tune mine, and it would be worth it to have FA20club dyno tune it.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I have asked multiple people who post their dynos which map they were using on their car for dynos, and almost all the Vortech dynos are showing their MAP 3 or 4 settings. (Perrin, Visconti) Most tuners will use MAP 1 as conservative, MAP 3 and 4 as more aggressive. Those are the MAPs with more timing advance/more power.

So in my case my MAP1 is about 50HP more than stock. With MAP4 its 80HP more than stock, but the timing advance shows knock at high RPM, so while yeah it looks good on a dyno sheet I would never drive around with that MAP. That was my point.

You might want to contact @moto-mike he tuned my vortech and I have no knock and I also don't have the flatline, my stock map had the canyon at 6600, bit now with my fuel injectors upgraded its gone as well, waiting for the dyno to back it up, but the canyon feeling at 6600 is gone, the ass dyno shows that its completely smooth from 2k to red line.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Adeets

You might want to contact @moto-mike he tuned my vortech and I have no knock and I also don't have the flatline, my stock map had the canyon at 6600, bit now with my fuel injectors upgraded its gone as well, waiting for the dyno to back it up, but the canyon feeling at 6600 is gone, the ass dyno shows that its completely smooth from 2k to red line.

Nice! I'm super stoked to see this. Looks like I've got an injector upgrade coming.