Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[DJCarbine]

Attached is an overlay of a supplied vortech dyno over innovates twinscrew dyno in their release thread.

Just a rough overlay to get an idea of the differences in power.
The baselines for both dyno graphs were within a few HP of each other for their "stock" run (166.87 vs 165.08 hp, 140.27 vs 137.39 tq), so the comparison should be at least somewhat accurate. Not sure of testing conditions though.

Green/Dark green is vortech, Blue is Innovate, red is stock

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

Attached is an overlay of a supplied vortech dyno over innovates twinscrew dyno in their release thread.

Heh, I did the same thing. It's not a bad kit, given its price and ease of installation. Power-wise, it keeps up with Vortech until about 6K (to be expected on a Twinscrew vs. Centrifugal). Relatively better torque numbers on the lower range for the Innovate (again to be expected).

I'm curious to see what the Intercooler can do for the kit. At that price point, it'd closer to the Vortech pricing for a better comparison.

In any event, the performance is as I expected and it's great to see this kit finally available. If it were available today, I'm not sure if I'd have chosen it over the Vortech. It's a close call. I might've gone Innovate just because of pricing + ease of installation but I am by no means disappointed in my Vortech kit.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Heh, I did the same thing. It's not a bad kit, given its price and ease of installation. Power-wise, it keeps up with Vortech until about 6K (to be expected on a Twinscrew vs. Centrifugal). Relatively better torque numbers on the lower range for the Innovate (again to be expected).

I'm curious to see what the Intercooler can do for the kit. At that price point, it'd closer to the Vortech pricing for a better comparison.

In any event, the performance is as I expected and it's great to see this kit finally available. If it were available today, I'm not sure if I'd have chosen it over the Vortech. It's a close call. I might've gone Innovate just because of pricing + ease of installation but I am by no means disappointed in my Vortech kit.

If the innovate kit had a lot more low end I would consider it, but from the dyno overlay it only appears to be marginal.... and the soon to be released upgrade from visconti might negate that if its a smaller pulley.

I'm also very happy with the vortech kit, and excited to hear more news about visconti and his upgrade kit

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

Attached is an overlay of a supplied vortech dyno over innovates twinscrew dyno in their release thread.

Just a rough overlay to get an idea of the differences in power.
The baselines for both dyno graphs were within a few HP of each other for their "stock" run (166.87 vs 165.08 hp, 140.27 vs 137.39 tq), so the comparison should be at least somewhat accurate. Not sure of testing conditions though.

Green/Dark green is vortech, Blue is Innovate, red is stock

Have to be careful with Vortech dyno numbers as most showing high numbers are those with high levels of timing advance at the limits of the tune/fuel. The actual conservative Vortech tunes are closer to the Innovative numbers.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Have to be careful with Vortech dyno numbers as most showing high numbers are those with high levels of timing advance at the limits of the tune/fuel. The actual conservative Vortech tunes are closer to the Innovative numbers.

When we see more people installing the kit and getting third party tunes we will have more data to compare. This was just a rough compare to see the different power delivery from ~2.5 to redline

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Have to be careful with Vortech dyno numbers as most showing high numbers are those with high levels of timing advance at the limits of the tune/fuel. The actual conservative Vortech tunes are closer to the Innovative numbers.

I dunno man, even my map 1 with conservative timing makes more torque from 2.5k - 7k, and put down 238whp. I like the innovate kit, and I want to see what it will do in the future, but lets not understate the gains from the vortech kit. Map1 is the red line here:

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Have to be careful with Vortech dyno numbers as most showing high numbers are those with high levels of timing advance at the limits of the tune/fuel. The actual conservative Vortech tunes are closer to the Innovative numbers.

Just curious, and I'm not trying to start an argument here, but how do you know what levels of timing advance was done on the various Vortech tunes as well as the one Innovate published? The dynos I've seen for Vortech Stage 1 kits are all around 250 whp. Which tuner do you consider to have a more conservative map, and do you have an example of their dyno?

[nelsmar]

So has anyone had a P0451 "Evaporative Emission Control System Pressure Sensor Range/Performance" come on? I noticed that the vap vacuum line on the fuel line bracket was extremely loose from the factory. I went ahead and put a small hose clamp and tightened it quite a bit. However I am still getting this CEL. I even tried to clean down my gas cap a bit just to make sure. However it happened 2-3 engine starts after I installed my supercharger. If i clear the CEL it seems like after about 3 starts the CEL is on. (never comes on while driving).

[nelsmar]

Also note I am driving in 105-115F weather... pavement temperatures on the highway are anywhere from 120-155F. So I don't know if that has something to do with it. Vacuum lines and anything plastic/rubber gets pretty damn soft at those temperatures.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

So has anyone had a P0451 "Evaporative Emission Control System Pressure Sensor Range/Performance" come on? I noticed that the vap vacuum line on the fuel line bracket was extremely loose from the factory. I went ahead and put a small hose clamp and tightened it quite a bit. However I am still getting this CEL. I even tried to clean down my gas cap a bit just to make sure. However it happened 2-3 engine starts after I installed my supercharger. If i clear the CEL it seems like after about 3 starts the CEL is on. (never comes on while driving).

Did you have fueling upgrades installed with your vortech kit?

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

So has anyone had a P0451 "Evaporative Emission Control System Pressure Sensor Range/Performance" come on? I noticed that the vap vacuum line on the fuel line bracket was extremely loose from the factory. I went ahead and put a small hose clamp and tightened it quite a bit. However I am still getting this CEL. I even tried to clean down my gas cap a bit just to make sure. However it happened 2-3 engine starts after I installed my supercharger. If i clear the CEL it seems like after about 3 starts the CEL is on. (never comes on while driving).

That doesn't sound like it has anything to do with the Vortech kit.

Since you had a chance to check the gas cap, we can rule out the chance that it was left open, but did you also make sure it's sealing correctly? Since you checked all the connections, I'm not sure what else you can try. How much fuel do you have in the tank? Maybe fill it up and try again? If the cap and hoses look good, I think the next step is to have the dealer check out the sensor, maybe do a pressure leak test on the system.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

Did you have fueling upgrades installed with your vortech kit?

nope no upgrades!

Originally Posted by Foobar

That doesn't sound like it has anything to do with the Vortech kit.

Since you had a chance to check the gas cap, we can rule out the chance that it was left open, but did you also make sure it's sealing correctly? Since you checked all the connections, I'm not sure what else you can try. How much fuel do you have in the tank? Maybe fill it up and try again? If the cap and hoses look good, I think the next step is to have the dealer check out the sensor, maybe do a pressure leak test on the system.

I had filled up and driven a good 5-6 times before installing, and the CEL came on 2-3 starts after install. Then every 2-3 times after clearing the code. I have filled the tank 3 times since the install so it shouldn't be that.

The fact it happened the moment I enabled the engine with positive atmosphere is why I am relating directly to something I may have done with the vortech install. I am wondering if we should be installing a checkvalve on the evap line? I need to look at the other end of the vacuum line under the passenger side covers but I will have to try to do it tomorrow AM. (work soon, and its rough working in 110F heat!).

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

nope no upgrades!



I had filled up and driven a good 5-6 times before installing, and the CEL came on 2-3 starts after install. Then every 2-3 times after clearing the code. I have filled the tank 3 times since the install so it shouldn't be that.

The fact it happened the moment I enabled the engine with positive atmosphere is why I am relating directly to something I may have done with the vortech install. I am wondering if we should be installing a checkvalve on the evap line? I need to look at the other end of the vacuum line under the passenger side covers but I will have to try to do it tomorrow AM. (work soon, and its rough working in 110F heat!).

Check valve needed to go on the PCV line from back of engine to intake manifold with arrow facing the intake manifold.

That for sure could be causing your issue.

[pheoxs]

Hey Guys, so I'm wondering. @sw20kosh is using a supercharger bypass valve boost solenoid to drop the boost levels if he runs out of water/meth on his innovate setup.

Would this work on the Vortech kit? Use the same solenoid on our bypass valve or we it need a different setup? I'd love to run water/meth (There is no E85 in Canada) but am trying to figure out how to deal with lowering the boost level if I run a smaller pulley and run out of W/M