What can the BRZ/86 outhandle?

[DarkSunrise]

I'll just leave this here for discussion (this was Autocar's Britain's Best Driver's Car Competition):

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its a good car but thats a little bit fan boyish. the engine is pretty far forward in the engine bay (due to the power steering i think) so its weight distribution isnt what i would call "good" and then you also have the whole front strut thing which is less than ideal. combine that with the reliability/trackability has yet to be seen (or if it has been seen its just out there blowing up motors) and i dont know if i would call the thing a track monster just yet. its a neat car in which i think the sum is greater than the parts but its not hard to find faults.

Weight distribution is 53/47 by design from what I read.. More importantly the COG is the lowest of any production car.. Which is phenomenal when it comes to handling characteristics.., even more so in this price category. You can modify WD.. But not COG.. Which is why so many are excited about these cars.. My M3 used struts in front too.. I don't hear many complaints about its handling capabilities .. There are a couple of reported engine failures during track time.. Those seem to be the exception.. As many run their cars without issue..
You don't need to be a fanboy to appreciate what this car is setup to do.. It's pretty descent right out of the box.. And a great platform to build upon.

[Sarlacc]

Amongst other vehicles, it outhandles this

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Weight distribution is 53/47 by design from what I read.. More importantly the COG is the lowest of any production car.. Which is phenomenal when it comes to handling characteristics.., even more so in this price category. You can modify WD.. But not COG.. Which is why so many are excited about these cars.. My M3 used struts in front too.. I don't hear many complaints about its handling capabilities .. There are a couple of reported engine failures during track time.. Those seem to be the exception.. As many run their cars without issue..
You don't need to be a fanboy to appreciate what this car is setup to do.. It's pretty descent right out of the box.. And a great platform to build upon.

a lot of what you are saying is wrong. my point was just that its not that hard to find faults. this car is cool, i just think its cool despite as many things as its cool because of things (i have no idea how to phrase that sentence)

[WolfpackS2k]

The car would handle better if the engine were further back in the chassis (or if the front axle was pushed forward). But I think that would further complicate packaging those 2 little extra seats.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Weight distribution is 53/47 by design from what I read.. More importantly the COG is the lowest of any production car.. Which is phenomenal when it comes to handling characteristics.., even more so in this price category. You can modify WD.. But not COG.. Which is why so many are excited about these cars.. My M3 used struts in front too.. I don't hear many complaints about its handling capabilities .. There are a couple of reported engine failures during track time.. Those seem to be the exception.. As many run their cars without issue..
You don't need to be a fanboy to appreciate what this car is setup to do.. It's pretty descent right out of the box.. And a great platform to build upon.

There are cars with lower COG but the twins have it the lowest for its price range and anything near

[Ryeong86]

https://axwaresystems.com/axorm/file...event1_raw.htm

Not a newbie in auto x solo, but this should give you an idea of what the FR-S can out handle with just Nitto Nt-05, I could only imagine what my FR-S can do with Hankook Ventus Rs3s, Nitto NT-01 or R Compound Tires/ Slicks.

[WolfpackS2k]

Autox isn't the final (or best) way to determine a car's handling ability. It greatly favors lightweight vehicles.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The car would handle better if the engine were further back in the chassis (or if the front axle was pushed forward). But I think that would further complicate packaging those 2 little extra seats.

Yep I agree. My guess would be that the 2+2 design necessitated the current weight balance, as most 2-seaters have a shorter cabin area, allowing for a longer hood and more room to mount the engine behind the front axle, given a set overall vehicle length.

Then again, Subaru claims they were aiming for a 53:47 weight balance all along (the car gets to 54:46 with the driver) due to the car's low torque output and the desire to give the car neutral handling characteristics.

Not sure who to believe in all this, but I'd say the current package works amazingly well in spite of (or because of, depending who you believe) the current weight balance.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'll just leave this here for discussion (this was Autocar's Britain's Best Driver's Car Competition):

Top Gear also voted it best car. http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/j...gt86-2012-12-7

But hey, the Internet experts who don't actually own the car (nd I doubt have ever even driven it) know best.

There is no other 2+2 drivers car out there for the money that can touch it as a daily driver. Period. I have driven them all, and none come close for me. The twins really are a special car.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by thill

There is no other 2+2 drivers car out there for the money that can touch it as a daily driver. Period. I have driven them all, and none come close for me. The twins really are a special car.

I would absolutely agree with that, even if you substantially loosen up the "for the money" constraint. From people I know who have driven them both, the Miata may come close if you're willing to lose a lot of the practicality of the back seat and trunk space, but aside from that, I really can't think of anything similar that's even within $10 or $15k of the twins for pure driving enjoyment.

[thill]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I would absolutely agree with that, even if you substantially loosen up the "for the money" constraint. From people I know who have driven them both, the Miata may come close if you're willing to lose a lot of the practicality of the back seat and trunk space, but aside from that, I really can't think of anything similar that's even within $10 or $15k of the twins for pure driving enjoyment.

My parents owned a Miata and I have a lot of time behind the wheel. They are a tremendous drivers car, but the convertible aspect and lack of trunk/backseat is a deal braker for me here in Minnesota.

If I just wanted a weekend fun car I would just get a used Cayman S (which I plan to do once the kids are out of the house).

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by thill

My parents owned a Miata and I have a lot of time behind the wheel. They are a tremendous drivers car, but the convertible aspect and lack of trunk/backseat is a deal braker for me here in Minnesota.

If I just wanted a weekend fun car I would just get a used Cayman S (which I plan to do once the kids are out of the house).

I've never driven a Miata, but that agrees with everything I've heard about them. I'd definitely love to try one sometime, but I haven't had the chance yet.

As for the Cayman, that's an excellent idea (not that I'm biased or anything). I was originally planning to buy a BRZ limited, but after test driving a Cayman, I fell in love. I didn't need the back seat, and the Cayman has a rather surprising amount of trunk space (quite a bit in front, and a bit more in back), so it isn't as horribly impractical as a miata or S2000 would be.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by thill

There is no other 2+2 drivers car out there for the money that can touch it as a daily driver. Period. I have driven them all, and none come close for me. The twins really are a special car.

There's some really stiff competition and it boils down to what you prioritize. Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Genesis, and Miata are all RWD sports cars in the price range, they all have their pro's and con's. Like you said 2+2 and "driver's car" (depending on how you define it) leaves no other competition you can buy new.