What can the BRZ/86 outhandle?

[sierra]

I thought the biggest eye opener was that test on a track against a WRX and Mazda 3 MPS where the 86 was the slowest. Then they fitted it with tyres of a similar spec to the other 2 cars and it was the quickest.

That said it all.

[DarkSunrise]

First you have to start with the definition of "handling", as it's a subjective word. It could mean any number of things, including peak lateral grip, chassis balance, body roll and composure, damping, mid-corner adjustability, turn-in, steering response, feedback, etc.

A lot of people simply look at lateral grip (i.e., speed through corners) and label that as handling, which I don't agree with. To me, handling encompasses all those things and not just peak lateral grip.

Now that you know my definition of handling, I can tell you that the GTI is not even in the same league as the FR-S in terms of handling. I own both at the moment and have pushed them pretty hard (backroads, autocross, streets, etc.). After spending a week driving the FR-S, I have to force myself to dial it back in corners when switching to my GTI, otherwise I find myself overdriving it.

FWIW I've also owned an STI hatch and the FR-S handles much better than that as well, especially on comparable tires. In my opinion, it'll be difficult to find any hot hatches on the market that will outhandle a purpose-built sports car like an FR-S.

[WolfpackS2k]

The Twins handle better than 99% of the cars sold today. If it doesn't put up "numbers" as well as some it's because of the tires. The car's entire structure is built around making it handle well, something that cannot be said for anything else that costs under $100k (Corvette, Cayman & Evora being the only exceptions).

[#87]

My reaction to this thread

[Ryuu0u]

I get all my facts from initial D so if the orginal hachi can beat it on the touge then I'm sure the new one will. Well the suspension has to be "quake proof" like the movie and if you blow your engine you have to put in a turbo one.

[RurumariGhost]

having driven more than a few different cars in my day (I work as a valet as a side job). Let me tell you not much handles or is as much fun as my twin. My dad drives an '07wrx in the middle of a stage 2 upgrade, I let him borrow my car. His is definitely faster in the straights but he was in love with my brz and the way it handled. He said if his car is a roaring lion, mine is a panther. I liked that comparison. A Friend of mine has a gti with the vr6, and his engine pulls for days, but mine is more fun to drive and easier to get around corners fast. as far as higher end cars, the only vettes I've driven were not well maintained and I only valeted them, so its not a fair comparison.

[Takuro]

I was speeding up to get on the freeway the other day and the FRS is pretty slow (but sounds nice revving up high). It makes sense when I think about it. Imagine being able to floor the pedal through a lot of corners at high RPMs without having to let off the accelerator much. I would imagine that would be extremely fun. Check out "Drift Bible" by Keiichi Tsuchiya when he talks about the AE86 and Miata being fun cars that you can just accelerate into a corner whereas faster and heavier cars have to brake sooner and longer and adjust their throttle. Sure, it's for drifting, I'm sure the application applies elsewhere. Here's the part of the video where he talks about how to drift low power cars. At 1:06, Keiichi even says "I wish Toyota made cars like these again". Boom. FT-86

[ame]http://youtu.be/UlE2acN9zaY[/ame]

[strat61caster]

The only objective measurement is skidpad, everything else has too many variables and the quality and type of tire will have a dramatic effect on performance. And as stated above does not "capture" what it means to "handle well".

Arguing which car is faster (when it's not obvious like GTR vs Tacoma) is like arguing your dad could beat up my dad.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Now that you know my definition of handling, I can tell you that the GTI is not even in the same league as the FR-S in terms of handling. I own both at the moment and have pushed them pretty hard (backroads, autocross, streets, etc.). After spending a week driving the FR-S, I have to force myself to dial it back in corners when switching to my GTI, otherwise I find myself overdriving it.

FWIW I've also owned an STI hatch and the FR-S handles much better than that as well, especially on comparable tires. In my opinion, it'll be difficult to find any hot hatches on the market that will outhandle a purpose-built sports car like an FR-S.

Totally agree with your definition of handling, but I think the gap on that attribute between the hot hatches and the RWD sports cars may be starting to close, based on all the recent reviews of 2 new models just hitting Europe now--the Fiesta ST and the Mk7 GTI equipped with the new optional LSD. Those two in particular are reported to have banished understeer from the FWD lexicon, can be rotated in-corner by the pedals alone, banish torque steer, leave their predecessors in the proverbial dust, and are a blast to drive. They are certainly getting close enough to the twins to be worth comparative drives before writing the big cheque.

[Takuro]

The real question should be "What cars can the DRIVER outhandle?"

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Takuro

The real question should be "What cars can the DRIVER outhandle?"

Couldn't agree more LOL

[FRyeS]

Shouldn't this go in the comparison forum? god these threads are tiresome sometimes.

[WolfpackS2k]

using skidpad as the only parameter measuring "handling" is a horrible idea. By that measurement a Ford Mustang GT handles better than an FRS/BRZ.

[lazyluka]

Watch this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shwgNV36xFA"]Car Handling - Grip, Oversteer & Understeer explained by Tiff Needell - YouTube[/ame]

Handling and Grip (Road holding) are two different things and people often confuse the two.

Our car's can HANDLE, they just lack grip on factory tyres.