Gauging interest on a twin-screw supercharger kit!!!

[King Tut]

Does this shop have the ability to cast or CNC machine a new intake manifold out of aluminum?

[velin86]

Originally Posted by Argento_FR-S

My intended goal is for this to be the crown jewel of a shop I plan to start. Basically I have the ability to borrow friends and their equipment to get this kit built for myself. I'm trying to figure out if it would be worthwhile to pull a loan, buy my own equipment, and start a shop with this being how I get my name out. Basically copying how Horse Power Freaks got started on BMW's. Although I plan to keep it a 1-2 man operation so that I don't have embezzlement issues like they did... I'm not looking to get rich, just hoping to make a living doing what I love.

Go for it man. You will surely get plenty of customers if you produce quality products.

[Argento_FR-S]

I don't quite have the ability to do aluminum casts as of now, but a buddy of mine is in the process of creating a forge. Plus I have connections to a heat treating company to bring the casts back up to 60-61 grade. I do have access to a vertical end mill and TIG welder so I am capable of making a pretty intake solution. The only issue would be an intercooler solution. I'm still in the planning stages of this build due to lack of funds at the moment. If I had $6k laying around then this shop would be going already with a build thread posted.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Argento_FR-S

I don't quite have the ability to do aluminum casts as of now, but a buddy of mine is in the process of creating a forge. Plus I have connections to a heat treating company to bring the casts back up to 60-61 grade. I do have access to a vertical end mill and TIG welder so I am capable of making a pretty intake solution. The only issue would be an intercooler solution. I'm still in the planning stages of this build due to lack of funds at the moment. If I had $6k laying around then this shop would be going already with a build thread posted.

The one hurdle I see is the intake manifold. The one pictured above would not be a good seller, that sharp bend would cause reversion issues. Making one like on the Innovate kit would be a lot more expensive. A mill capable of doing the job might be available, but the amount of material you would be cutting out would make the part very cost prohibitive. So, the only way I see this working is casting it in aluminum. Well, unless you can mold it in plastic like the stock manifold is.

If you can get past that hurdle, you certainly have my attention.

[roddy]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

I'd be interested in the M62 Eaton blower if in a simple kit form if it's cheaper and produces more HP/torque than the innovate kit, without sacrificing reliability and including an intercooler of some sort like the Innovate kit.

The M62 is a decent blower, but it's time has passed. It would be good to use for mock-up purposes, but it won't likely touch a similarly sized twin screw in power production, efficiency, or heat management...they don't call the old Eatons "hEatons" for nothing. I'm running a 4th gen M90 on my V6 Mustang (non-intercooled) and it suffers from heat soak pretty bad (my fault for opting out of the intercooler and running 10+ PSI).

Originally Posted by Argento_FR-S

My intended goal is for this to be the crown jewel of a shop I plan to start. Basically I have the ability to borrow friends and their equipment to get this kit built for myself. I'm trying to figure out if it would be worthwhile to pull a loan, buy my own equipment, and start a shop with this being how I get my name out. Basically copying how Horse Power Freaks got started on BMW's. Although I plan to keep it a 1-2 man operation so that I don't have embezzlement issues like they did... I'm not looking to get rich, just hoping to make a living doing what I love.

I wish you good luck, and hope you can put it together. Have you considered using an Eaton TVS instead of the Whipple? I could be wrong, but I believe they are currently the most efficient PD blower on the market... I'd much rather buy from an individual or small shop that has put something together using North American sourced parts, than from a large company that has imported them from the other side of the world. This is in no way a shot at Innovate, just a personal prefrence. The kit for my Mustang is a perfect example of why... If I have an issue or a question, and I call that number, I speak to the man himself (or his wife and she has him call right back). Dave is a great guy doing what he loves, and it shows. You can't get that kind of personal service from a large company.
I'll shoot you a PM with some contact info. If you're seriously considering this, and aren't sure where to turn for prototyping, getting castings made, buying head units, or just advice...he's been there. Super nice guy.

Here's a couple of pics of his kit in my other car...

[Sellout]

^TVS blowers are definitely more efficient than an old school roots, but I don't think they can touch the peak efficiency of a twin screw. Neither can a turbo.

[stockysnail]

I'd love a Eaton TVS, which I thought was also a twin screw as there are two screws in it and it was just another type of twin screw, plus a more efficient kind.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Argento_FR-S

I don't quite have the ability to do aluminum casts as of now, but a buddy of mine is in the process of creating a forge. Plus I have connections to a heat treating company to bring the casts back up to 60-61 grade. I do have access to a vertical end mill and TIG welder so I am capable of making a pretty intake solution. The only issue would be an intercooler solution. I'm still in the planning stages of this build due to lack of funds at the moment. If I had $6k laying around then this shop would be going already with a build thread posted.

Do you have access to a flow bench and/or know how to use one?

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

I'd love a Eaton TVS, which I thought was also a twin screw as there are two screws in it and it was just another type of twin screw, plus a more efficient kind.

TVS rotors might look like screws because of their twist, but it's different. TVS blowers have an added lobe and more of a twist to them than the previous generation roots blower, which is why they're more efficient(different inlet/outlet ports too). They're still roots blowers though. The rotors fit together in such a way that they pump air from one side to the other, but they don't compress the air that's pumped. The rotors aren't male/female, they're identical with one rotor turned slightly in relation to the other, such that they fit together inside the pump. Air is simply pulled around the outside of the rotors from top to bottom as they turn.

Old school: TVS:

Twin screw superchargers have male and female screws with a differing number of lobes and they fit together differently than roots vanes do. The air is compressed in the housing rather than in the intake manifold, the pumping mechanism is different, twin screws pump the air down the length of the screws where the screws meet in the middle, compressing it as the housing gets smaller.

[roddy]

^ this. The TVS is far and above the old school roots blowers, and at most could be called a hybrid (bit of a stretch), but when it boils down to the facts, it is still a roots type blower. I took a look at some of the efficiency numbers that whipple is claiming, and they are impressive. I'd like to see some maps like Eaton shows though instead of just peak numbers. Sellout, do you know if Whipple has anything like that available?

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by roddy

^ this. The TVS is far and above the old school roots blowers, and at most could be called a hybrid (bit of a stretch), but when it boils down to the facts, it is still a roots type blower. I took a look at some of the efficiency numbers that whipple is claiming, and they are impressive. I'd like to see some maps like Eaton shows though instead of just peak numbers. Sellout, do you know if Whipple has anything like that available?

Whipple doesn't publish them, neither does Kenne Bell apparently. You can find some for Lysholm superchargers, but the adiabatic efficiency is measured in a different way than it is in the TVS roots maps, so they look like crap. (They measure it based on power input or some crap, resulting in low numbers.)

[nokia7190]

Magnuson Supercharger also has a few interesting design.

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by nokia7190

Magnuson Supercharger also has a few interesting design.

They make kits with Eaton blowers...

[roddy]

^ beat me to it.