Ecutek boost control with ebcs help.

[gdrider77]

Just wondering how this works as far as changing wg actuator. Essentially my question is does the setting in ecutek use a defined number or additive number.

Example. I have a 6psi actuator. I want 10psi of boost.
So when setting it up in ecutek am I setting the param to +4psi, or does it have the full 10psi set?

The reason I ask is because I am wondering If the tune has the 10psi set, and then I switch the actuator to a 10psi one, will I now be running 14psi, or 20psi?

This is all hypothetical, just trying to understand how the ecutek boost is set, and how the wastegate spring correlates.

I would think it would be additive. But not clear. Any info/help.

Thanks.

[Sportsguy83]

@jamesm

[arghx7]

I haven't looked at the ECUtek boost control tables. Can somebody post screenshots of them?

[jamesm]

you can set up proportional, integral, or a combination of the two. so you have to set up a boost target map, a base WG duty map and get that dialed reasonably close, then set up proportional and/or integral comps to nail it down hard. this is all done with custom maps and can be done absolutely any way you like. also remember to set the duty cycle on the valve in the rom to that of your ebcs, probably around 35hz.

to change the boost you'll just input a new boost target into the custom map, but there's a lot to do before you get there.

ecutek doesn't really have 'boost control maps', they have maps to modify the CPC valve function that happen to be labeled 'boost control' since that's what they're commonly used for. ecutek's docs even suggest that you shouldn't use that, and use a proper proportional/integral setup with custom maps instead. if you don't have racerom you could use them to set up a basic wg duty map, but unless you have a specific reason to limit boost intentionally it'd probably be better to just use an MBC without the integral/proportional compensation.

[arghx7]

Thanks for the explanation. If it's not too much trouble, humor me by posting screenshots of whatever maps you exploring how to use on this specific vehicle. Open loop, closed loop, target tables, base duty tables, temperature modifiers, gain tables, whatever. I am asking because then I will be able to better provide advice on how to tune it.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by arghx7

Thanks for the explanation. If it's not too much trouble, humor me by posting screenshots of whatever maps you exploring how to use on this specific vehicle. Open loop, closed loop, target tables, base duty tables, temperature modifiers, gain tables, whatever. I am asking because then I will be able to better provide advice on how to tune it.

if you have racerom i can just send you my ROM. it's unlocked.

[gdrider77]

Thanks for all the info. Probably another thread, but still trying to figure out pros/cons of EBCS vs MBC. think its time for a new thread.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by gdrider77

Thanks for all the info. Probably another thread, but still trying to figure out pros/cons of EBCS vs MBC. think its time for a new thread.

That's easy. Use the MBC UNLESS you are able to tune the EBCS perfectly (possible and not hard for whomever is actually competent using Ecutek).

[jamesm]

Agreed. MBC's are far better in terms of doing their job than most electronic controls (largely dependent on the calibration and setup). Unless you have a particular setup that requires or benefits from it (flex fuel setups, boost by gear in higher powered cars, boost ramping limits for bottom end protection on really high hp cars, etc) the MBC is probably the way to go.

[arghx7]

A properly set MBC will always beat a jacked up EBC tune. But people make EBC tuning way more complicated than it has to be for basic functionality.

Remember that you can get simple MBC functionality and tuning easily if you set it up right. Here is a 2005 STi calibration using the same wastegate duty across the board, with cold ambient temperature compensation so you don't get boost spikes. These shots are from Cobb AccessTuner Race.



So for the scenario depicted above, all the closed loop feedback is turned off so you don't have to mess with controller gains if you don't want to. I can raise and lower basically my entire map to set the main boost tuning--same as turning a knob on an MBC. So try 30, 40, 50, 60% across the board. It's no different than popping the hood and turning a knob. Then, when it's cold out, adjust the intake air compensation tables to prevent spikes--something you can't do with a mechanical valve.

On an FT86 if you're smoking the tires from low end torque, set the wastegate duty lower at whatever speed point you want. Simple.

The WRX/STi control is pretty slick because you can set up compensations and map controller gains based on boost error, but that's not strictly necessary by any means.

Remember that electronic boost control in this context is just a solenoid driver controlling a simple pneumatic valve. It can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be. Subaru's controls on the WRX and STi are, believe it or not, stupid simple compared to what other manufacturers do. A lot of other cars with factory turbos have a model of the compressor and turbine maps built into the ECU. They convert a torque request from the accelerator pedal into various demands for airflow, turbine power, compressor pressure ratio, etc.

In contrast, you can use a simple look up table to control a turbo, and spend about as much time on it as tuning an MBC. And then you can log your wastegate duty so you know what the heck it's doing at any given time.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by arghx7

A properly set MBC will always beat a jacked up EBC tune. But people make EBC tuning way more complicated than it has to be for basic functionality.

Remember that you can get simple MBC functionality and tuning easily if you set it up right. Here is a 2005 STi calibration using the same wastegate duty across the board, with cold ambient temperature compensation so you don't get boost spikes. These shots are from Cobb AccessTuner Race.



So for the scenario depicted above, all the closed loop feedback is turned off so you don't have to mess with controller gains if you don't want to. I can raise and lower basically my entire map to set the main boost tuning--same as turning a knob on an MBC. So try 30, 40, 50, 60% across the board. It's no different than popping the hood and turning a knob. Then, when it's cold out, adjust the intake air compensation tables to prevent spikes--something you can't do with a mechanical valve.

On an FT86 if you're smoking the tires from low end torque, set the wastegate duty lower at whatever speed point you want. Simple.

The WRX/STi control is pretty slick because you can set up compensations and map controller gains based on boost error, but that's not strictly necessary by any means.

Remember that electronic boost control in this context is just a solenoid driver controlling a simple pneumatic valve. It can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be. Subaru's controls on the WRX and STi are, believe it or not, stupid simple compared to what other manufacturers do. A lot of other cars with factory turbos have a model of the compressor and turbine maps built into the ECU. They convert a torque request from the accelerator pedal into various demands for airflow, turbine power, compressor pressure ratio, etc.

In contrast, you can use a simple look up table to control a turbo, and spend about as much time on it as tuning an MBC. And then you can log your wastegate duty so you know what the heck it's doing at any given time.

agreed 100%. however, if all you want is basic functionality... it's still a lot easier (and much cheaper) to install and use an mbc. so, i still recommend them to those who don't want any of the 'cool stuff'.

[arghx7]

Well, easier is still to some extent a preference thing. You can't beat an inexpensive manual valve and some hoses for simplicity. But then again, a 3-way solenoid valve from MAC or other pneumatic valve manufacturer isn't too different to set up, except for the wires.

But I hate getting out of the car popping the hood and getting in there and turning the knob with all that engine bay heat. Or if you have a remote MBC that's mounted in the car, you've got more clutter inside the vehicle. The same can be said with oldschool external EBC systems, like a clunky Greddy Profec box velcro'd to your dash somewhere.

When you swap a map for different fuel, you can automatically get different boost control instead of having to turn the knob. There are high end MBCs which can do most of that stuff though.

What really kills me is the lack of air temp compensation on an MBC. That is just sooo annoying. Drive around on a fall Saturday about to go to a meet, turn the knob one way at noon and turn it another way when you go out to the meet at night.