Oil Analysis - 1st oil change

[roflcopter]

This may be a dumb question but if the new Mazda 0w-20 is made by Idemitsu, and is SN certified, and the old Subaru SM is made by Idemitsu, can we not assume the new Subaru SN will be very similar to the Mazda oil? I have no idea I'm just wondering if when my Subaru dealer stops carrying the SM oil if I should go across the street (literally) and get the Mazda SN.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by roflcopter

This may be a dumb question but if the new Mazda 0w-20 is made by Idemitsu, and is SN certified, and the old Subaru SM is made by Idemitsu, can we not assume the new Subaru SN will be very similar to the Mazda oil? I have no idea I'm just wondering if when my Subaru dealer stops carrying the SM oil if I should go across the street (literally) and get the Mazda SN.

An oil analysis on the Subaru SN and the Mazda SN will show that they are blended differently. IMO, it's tough to make a decision about one additive in oil being the decisive factor in choosing an oil. But after running both Motul 300V and Red Line, an oil with lots of moly made the biggest overall subjective difference in any oil that I've used in 15 years of changing my own oil in Subaru's and trying many different brands and viscosities.

Someone on nasioc that tried Red Line 5W-30 went with the 5W-40 because he felt there was too little resistance in the engine with the 5W-30. I told him that was the way that it was supposed to feel. Keep in mind that 300V and Red Line are both made with ester base stocks and contain a lot of moly, so I do not know if the difference felt is from the moly alone or a combination of the two (most likely).

That said, I would probably choose the Mazda oil over the Subaru oil to see if there is any subjective difference.

-Dennis

[roflcopter]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

An oil analysis on the Subaru SN and the Mazda SN will show that they are blended differently. IMO, it's tough to make a decision about one additive in oil being the decisive factor in choosing an oil. But after running both Motul 300V and Red Line, an oil with lots of moly made the biggest overall subjective difference in any oil that I've used in 15 years of changing my own oil in Subaru's and trying many different brands and viscosities.

Someone on nasioc that tried Red Line 5W-30 went with the 5W-40 because he felt there was too little resistance in the engine with the 5W-30. I told him that was the way that it was supposed to feel. Keep in mind that 300V and Red Line are both made with ester base stocks and contain a lot of moly, so I do not know if the difference felt is from the moly alone or a combination of the two (most likely).

That said, I would probably choose the Mazda oil over the Subaru oil to see if there is any subjective difference.

-Dennis

I will surely try it! I will be sticking with 0w-20 though, I don't claim to know better than an engineer!

[R L Newb]

Third oil change is up. Moly plummeted for some reason (i'm sure someone smarter than I will chime in on that), viscosity seemed to hold at the same level as usual.

The butt dyno says change oil at 7k miles but according to Blackstone there is no need.

[smbrm]

I would bet you didn't have as much moly as the other samples to start?

[R L Newb]

Well yeah some of it should have been watered down since the break-in but that seems like a large jump.

[smbrm]

I would suggest that oil used in the third drain is possibly a slightly different formulation due to the lower moly and significantly higher boron. Just a guess. Only way to do that is to do a new oil sample each time, which is a bit over the top or track the batch codes, from which the oil manufacturer should be able to confirm(if willing) a formulation variance.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by R L Newb

Third oil change is up. Moly plummeted for some reason (i'm sure someone smarter than I will chime in on that), viscosity seemed to hold at the same level as usual.

The butt dyno says change oil at 7k miles but according to Blackstone there is no need.

Where's the uoa? Moly is an oil additive/ingredient in assembly lube. Unless you run an oil that you know is high in moly, it will gradually reduce at each subsequent uoa.

-Dennis

[R L Newb]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

Where's the uoa? Moly is an oil additive/ingredient in assembly lube. Unless you run an oil that you know is high in moly, it will gradually reduce at each subsequent uoa.

-Dennis

I keep editing my post on pg 1 with the new uoa. So there are 3 of mine and links to the other posts.
I expected it to decrease but when first UOA is 660, second is 760 and third is 270 that had me wondering why the jump was so large. I'll look for the batch codes like smbrm suggested on the old bottles.

[tbrocato]

Dennis, if we are sending off samples and all metal numbers are looking great is there really a need for such a high moly oil....if all the numbers look good?

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by R L Newb

Third oil change is up. Moly plummeted for some reason (i'm sure someone smarter than I will chime in on that), viscosity seemed to hold at the same level as usual.

The butt dyno says change oil at 7k miles but according to Blackstone there is no need.

Great to see some legit information. Thanks for taking the time and money to share with all of us. It looks like this engine takes some miles to fully break-in.

[R L Newb]

I'm not allowed to mod this one so I have to find ways of wasting time and money on it somehow :P

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by R L Newb

I keep editing my post on pg 1 with the new uoa. So there are 3 of mine and links to the other posts.
I expected it to decrease but when first UOA is 660, second is 760 and third is 270 that had me wondering why the jump was so large. I'll look for the batch codes like smbrm suggested on the old bottles.

Ok, I don't know why I couldn't see that earlier. Now smbrm's comments make sense. Lol. You definitely have uoa-itis. Break-in wear metals may not drop to normal until after 10k.

Was the oil API SM or SN?I know that Idemitsu reduced moly for GF5, but I believe that there was a formulation change sometime before the switch to GF5. Here's a voa on the old SM/GF4 with lower levels of moly:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2862184

-Dennis

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by tbrocato

Dennis, if we are sending off samples and all metal numbers are looking great is there really a need for such a high moly oil....if all the numbers look good?

Keep in mind that results vary based on the specific application, but it's not necessary to worry about anti-wear additives reducing as long as wear is fine.

As was mentioned above, boron was increased and it is a multi-functional additive that cleans and also provides anti-wear. Some people prefer moly for the plating action. After a few miles on it, you'll notice easier starts and possibly better engine response.

-Dennis