Extra gains suggestions on N/A

[Tcoat]

Long way to go to top 221HP!


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98029

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Long way to go to top 221HP!


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98029

What in the F..... lmao. This one does not spark joy.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

What in the F..... lmao. This one does not spark joy.

But bruh he is the world record NA HP holder. He says so himself!


Most of his great posts in there were deleted so you sort of see only part of the conversation but you can get the idea.


All in all it is an NA engine that puts out 100HP per litre stock so there is only so much that can be done to add more without FI to help it out.

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But bruh he is the world record NA HP holder. He says so himself!


Most of his great posts in there were deleted so you sort of see only part of the conversation but you can get the idea.


All in all it is an NA engine that puts out 100HP per litre stock so there is only so much that can be done to add more without FI to help it out.

That abomination will haunt me forever in my sleep. Just how.

100% agree with you.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Literally what I just mentioned, could be placebo, could be an actual marginal improvement. It's a subject a huge debate over most forums.

I couldn't tell a difference, even when rev matching

Originally Posted by spcmafia

I've never heard about people modding their current headers on the twins, inexperience and lack of research I guess. Wish I could've known that before buying the headers.

Thought you said you needed to keep the cat? Modding the stock header just involves cutting out the cat, lots of people have done it, it is the biggest restriction in the system.

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I couldn't tell a difference, even when rev matching

Thought you said you needed to keep the cat? Modding the stock header just involves cutting out the cat, lots of people have done it, it is the biggest restriction in the system.

Can't really debate whether it does or it does not, again, matter of feel. I switched to the BRZ from a 2013 Mazda 3 and rev matching was so much more smooth on it. Completely different cars, I know, but as soon as I replaced the pulley, it just felt better.



Yeah I kind of shot myself in the foot there. I thought it was interesting that people go that route. Kind of contradicted myself with the statement of wishing to do it if I knew about it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Thought you said you needed to keep the cat? Modding the stock header just involves cutting out the cat, lots of people have done it, it is the biggest restriction in the system.

This is what I mean when I always say the car was pretty much topped out when built. It already has a header. You are not going to get mega gains from swapping one header for another like you would pulling a traditional exhaust manifold and replacing with a header.
If swapping for an aftermarket catted header you are really doing nothing at all. The stock header with the cat knocked out of it is probably just as free flowing as the majority of the uncatted aftermarkets ones.
It is really all in the tune since even with the stock catted header the car is set up for mileage and emissions from the factory. Tuning to take more advantage of the stock set up has more of an effect than just swapping headers.


Now this dude will get some nice gains by swapping

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This is what I mean when I always say the car was pretty much topped out when built. It already has a header. You are not going to get mega gains from swapping one header for another like you would pulling a traditional exhaust manifold and replacing with a header.
If swapping for an aftermarket catted header you are really doing nothing at all. The stock header with the cat knocked out of it is probably just as free flowing as the majority of the uncatted aftermarkets ones.
It is really all in the tune since even with the stock catted header the car is set up for mileage and emissions from the factory. Tuning to take more advantage of the stock set up has more of an effect than just swapping headers.


Now this dude will get some nice gains by swapping

Bottom line is that me, like many other people I'm sure, probably drank the kool aid and fell for the many companies that claim gains if you drop loads of cash for their parts.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Can't really debate whether it does or it does not, again, matter of feel. I switched to the BRZ from a 2013 Mazda 3 and rev matching was so much more smooth on it. Completely different cars, I know, but as soon as I replaced the pulley, it just felt better.

See, I went the other way. My car had a LCP on it when I bought it. I swapped out for a stock one to see if I could tell a difference. I figured it was an opportunity to remove the placebo effect of "I spent money on part, must be better." I actually didn't even feel good about putting it up for sale on the forums. It sat on my desk as a paper weight until I recently gave it away.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by spcmafia

Bottom line is that me, like many other people I'm sure, probably drank the kool aid and fell for the many companies that claim gains if you drop loads of cash for their parts.

That is part of it. The other is that there are many many cars (even "performance" ones) where there is indeed plenty of room for improvement and loads of untapped power. In those cases many of the methods and parts that people use as their first go to are indeed effective and a good bang for the buck.
Unfortunately ( or fortunately depending on your point of view) the Twins are not one of those. They pretty much maxed out the available NA power right from the start. There are of course some small gains that could be made but unless people realize they are just not going to get huge jumps from small changes they are just pissing money away. They may get a better "feel" because their brain will tell them that they made a change so it must be better even if the results of that change is so small it can't be measured.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is part of it. The other is that there are many many cars (even "performance" ones) where there is indeed plenty of room for improvement and loads of untapped power. In those cases many of the methods and parts that people use as their first go to are indeed effective and a good bang for the buck.
Unfortunately ( or fortunately depending on your point of view) the Twins are not one of those. They pretty much maxed out the available NA power right from the start. There are of course some small gains that could be made but unless people realize they are just not going to get huge jumps from small changes they are just pissing money away. They may get a better "feel" because their brain will tell them that they made a change so it must be better even if the results of that change is so small it can't be measured.

I agree, but the feel can be more important than numbers for DD or spirited runs. For example, it feels faster with a nice exhaust sound, even though we know it isn’t. For competition the numbers matter more, although at the limit feel can contribute to a drivers confidence and that is very subjective. The key is the cost benefit of a mod and the general consensus is for NA the cost is high for small benefits. Whether it’s worth it, depends on your wallet and what you want out of your car. I am staying NA, so headers, air filter, tune and power blocks are it for me powerwize. Suspension mods, tires, lightweight wheels will be my focus in the future.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I agree, but the feel can be more important than numbers for DD or spirited runs. For example, it feels faster with a nice exhaust sound, even though we know it isn’t. For competition the numbers matter more, although at the limit feel can contribute to a drivers confidence and that is very subjective. The key is the cost benefit of a mod and the general consensus is for NA the cost is high for small benefits. Whether it’s worth it, depends on your wallet and what you want out of your car. I am staying NA, so headers, air filter, tune and power blocks are it for me powerwize. Suspension mods, tires, lightweight wheels will be my focus in the future.

100% agree. As long as the person behind the wheel at least understands that the results of his work haven't made it 221HP record holder and much of what he feels is just perception.

[nikitopo]

There are ways to make it faster and still staying NA. It doesn't have to be ALWAYS gains in engine performance. An example is the BRZ tS which was ~ 3-4 seconds faster in Car and Driver's lightning lap results comparing to a previous year PP model.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-2017-feature/

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2018/

[Spuds]

Lightweight wheels and tires, carbon fiber driveshaft.

Edit, and remove the rear seats.