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[M-17]

Originally Posted by dookie11

Time to go ball squeezing, amirite?

I hope you meant that...

[dookie11]

Originally Posted by M-17

I hope you meant that...

Well, what I meant was Giccin's pro ability to squeeze dealers by the huevos. But ya, Chuck works too! hahaha

[Khyron686]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That was a problem on old M96 motors, and greatly exaggerated then. M97 engines are fine, except that they leak even more oil.

This is not true. Porsche revised the IMS bearing to a stronger single row in 2006, but any non-turbo car before that S or otherwise should consider retrofitting an aftermarket bearing while doing the clutch. It's not a sure death trap, but 3% fail rate is also not unbelievable. The replacement with labour on a 911 motor is about 20K. Tread carefully. 2009+ is a totally new motor with no IMS.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

+1 on what you said about no one would say things are running fine on the Internet. You only post problem, or search for the same problem, on Internet and try to find a solution. If things are fine, don't bother post it.

BTW, that was a refreshing note on the reliability of Porsche cars/engines. I always thought they were pretty reliable, I guess I was wrong on that.

It depends entirely on the model. Some models have really good reliability while others don't.

[turanuk]

Yeah the risk of a catastrophic failure like that one turned me off on the used Cayman route - the motor is worth almost as much as the entire car - and if you have a failure, you basically have a giant paperweight - not something I'm interested in risking.

As mentioned, 2006+ is supposed to be "better", but if you head over to the planet-9 forums you can see examples of folks with the newer bearing having engine failures also.

I think for 2009+ it's a "wait and see" type of thing - not sure when folks started having the IMS bearing issue for their M96's, but it's only been 3 years for 09s. The main problem, however, with the 09+ is that there are very few of them used, and the ones that are are not in the low $30k range yet. Hopefully the 2013 Boxster/Cayman spurs folks to upgrade and we see more 2009 models in the used market - the more I hear about the BRZ and dealer allocation the more I think this is something that is only really going to be a viable purchase sometime in 2014.

[DEC1]

I was considering used Cayman as well...researched as much as I could...mostly on Planet9. 2009+ is def the way to go...but 36k is about the lower limit on price and goes way up from there. That would probably be an ok reach but maintenance cost by their admission is an issue. They get like 20K on tires...and they are $$$ to replace...oil changes are an adventure and cost like $400 at a dealer.
So their advice to me (considering the 30k miles I drive each year) was go with something less exotic...and that's why I have a BRZ on order...now if it would just get here!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Khyron686

This is not true. Porsche revised the IMS bearing to a stronger single row in 2006, but any non-turbo car before that S or otherwise should consider retrofitting an aftermarket bearing while doing the clutch. It's not a sure death trap, but 3% fail rate is also not unbelievable. The replacement with labour on a 911 motor is about 20K. Tread carefully. 2009+ is a totally new motor with no IMS.

Things must have changed since I was last looking in 09 or so. Isn't the ln retrofit still a cheap preventative fix?

[Khyron686]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Things must have changed since I was last looking in 09 or so. Isn't the ln retrofit still a cheap preventative fix?

I think it was 1500 or so assuming you're already in deep for the clutch. You can't retrofit a 2006-2008 as the new/improved bearing is non-servicable without splitting the block. Not that you'd want to... but for 05 or earlier it's almost required.

Reading at renlist and 6speed it seems the retro and the factory modification are about the same - as reliable as any other part. Ie you're just as likely to have a catastrophic rod bend or something. Nothing is 100%

The point is you can look at autotrader all you want, and you might be able to squeeze and make it work, but always consider that it's a 100K car with 100K maint/parts. Have insurance like a CPO or other warranty or a HELOC you can tap if you are one of the unlucky.

I still remember a thread about a dude who bought a Ferrari 355 for around 50K - and then got slapped with a 40K repair bill. Pay to play.

[Dave-ROR]

I defiantly agree that you should be aware and prepared for the repairs and maint that comes with it. The air cooled cars used to be insanely expensive to maintain too but eventually cheap fixes came out when I was considering a 40th ann 911 back in 2009 I had planned on putting 12k in a "IMS engine fund"

[Turbowned]

That's the big thing; you gotta pay to play! A used exotic isn't any less costly to repair just because the selling price is affordable. I was looking at a 2003 Audi RS 6 recently, for just $22,000! The car is a MONSTER. 450bhp from a 40-valve variable-cam bi-turbo V8. 8 piston front brakes, giant meaty Michelins, leather and alcantara covering everything inside the car. Absolutely incredible, until you have to repair anything. Then you remember that the car originally cost $92,000 (~$110,000 in today's dollars) and why the repairs are so expensive.

I'll take a $30k BRZ that only needs $50 to change the oil and $500 for tires, as opposed to a $22k RS 6 that needs $130 to change the oil, $1,500 for tires and a $3k timing belt service every 40k miles... and gets like 16mpg Someday when I'm rich:

[OrbitalEllipses]

Super sedans just don't do it for me. I respect them, but they do nothing for me.