Car not starting on first turn of key (not even cranking)

[Riftur]

So for 3 days now when the car is cold I turn the key and nothing happens (no cranking or anything). I turn the key off and back on and it starts right up. My car usually starts right up on first try. I dont think its the battery since it starts right up when I turn it the second time. Any clue? Also its a automatic.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

So for 3 days now when the car is cold I turn the key and nothing happens (no cranking or anything). I turn the key off and back on and it starts right up. My car usually starts right up on first try. I dont think its the battery since it starts right up when I turn it the second time. Any clue? Also its a automatic.

Did you change anything recently?

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Did you change anything recently?

Nope

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

Nope

OK sounds silly but try replacing the battery in your key. If it is low it may be taking the disabler a bit to grab the signal. Had that issue with my wife's car.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

OK sounds silly but try replacing the battery in your key. If it is low it may be taking the disabler a bit to grab the signal. Had that issue with my wife's car.

My spare key does not have a battery in it. Its the valet key. I can try that and see if it works.

[humfrz]

Also, you may try nudging the shift lever while it's in the park position.


humfrz

[SLVRSRFR]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Also, you may try nudging the shift lever while it's in the park position.


humfrz

Seems silly, but it's not.

Had a friend that I sold a Kia Rio to years ago. she called me in a panic one day, saying she was having trouble starting the car.

Turns out something was jammed in her shifter, not allowing the car to go fully into park. Any automatic car, of course, has to be in "park" or "neutral" in order to start. The parking pin was going in, allowing the car to actually "park" and not roll away, but the sensor in the shifter assembly was not registering the shifter as being in the "park" position, thus telling the computer to not allow the car to start.

[ajh88]

Tighten up all the connections on your battery too.

[billwot]

Originally Posted by ajh88

Tighten up all the connections on your battery too.

[Spartarus]

Let me make a wild guess...

This happens when you get in, turn the key from full off, all the way to start immediately without pausing. Nothing happens. Release to "ON" and try again, and it fires up immediately...

If I am correct, then I had your exact same problem, except on an MT car.

I've looked over the starting circuit thoroughly, and all I can say is either you have a sticky relay or a bad battery. Here's the justification.

Unfortunately, on this car, the ground path for the start relay doesn't go straight to the battery, it vanishes into the ECM at pin 26, and then goes god-knows-where. We like to call ECU's "logic boxes" in my field... And they make troubleshooting a ROYAL B*TCH.

Either way, there is undoubtedly start logic in the ECM that controls this ground. if you close the contacts for the two start switches in the key switch before all the other relays close and everything is powered, nothing happens. There is start-inhibiting logic somewhere in the ECU... Pity there's no documentation of any kind... Sigh, logic boxes.

All it took to solve my problem was pausing a half-second at "ON" before turning the key all the way to "Start"... But it was irritating, because I didn't have to do that when the car was new. Charging the battery made the problem go away for a while, and I didn't want to start chasing relays.

Anyway, If your battery is older, and the charge retention has gotten worse, and the cold start voltage is down, it may not have the initial "kick" to close all the relays in the fraction of a second that it takes you to rotate the key all the way from off to start.

In older cars, it didn't matter, because the key switch went straight to ground, but in this car it doesn't...

For example, on an old MT car, if you turn the key to "START" first, and then depress the clutch, as soon as the clutch bottoms out the engine will crank, because the clutch switch completes the starting circuit. BUT on the FRS, you do the same thing, and nothing happens. Start is inhibited by the ECU because it wasn't in a "ready" condition when the key closed the "Start" switches.

On your car, you have no clutch switch, you have a neutral inhibitor relay in the AT shifter which completes the same logic circuit, but it's the same concept.

The TL : DR here is it's going to be hard or impossible to determine exactly what the problem is. Try charging your battery and see what happens.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

Let me make a wild guess...

This happens when you get in, turn the key from full off, all the way to start immediately without pausing. Nothing happens. Release to "ON" and try again, and it fires up immediately...

If I am correct, then I had your exact same problem, except on an MT car.

I've looked over the starting circuit thoroughly, and all I can say is either you have a sticky relay or a bad battery. Here's the justification.

Unfortunately, on this car, the ground path for the start relay doesn't go straight to the battery, it vanishes into the ECM at pin 26, and then goes god-knows-where. We like to call ECU's "logic boxes" in my field... And they make troubleshooting a ROYAL B*TCH.

Either way, there is undoubtedly start logic in the ECM that controls this ground. if you close the contacts for the two start switches in the key switch before all the other relays close and everything is powered, nothing happens. There is start-inhibiting logic somewhere in the ECU... Pity there's no documentation of any kind... Sigh, logic boxes.

All it took to solve my problem was pausing a half-second at "ON" before turning the key all the way to "Start"... But it was irritating, because I didn't have to do that when the car was new. Charging the battery made the problem go away for a while, and I didn't want to start chasing relays.

Anyway, If your battery is older, and the charge retention has gotten worse, and the cold start voltage is down, it may not have the initial "kick" to close all the relays in the fraction of a second that it takes you to rotate the key all the way from off to start.

In older cars, it didn't matter, because the key switch went straight to ground, but in this car it doesn't...

For example, on an old MT car, if you turn the key to "START" first, and then depress the clutch, as soon as the clutch bottoms out the engine will crank, because the clutch switch completes the starting circuit. BUT on the FRS, you do the same thing, and nothing happens. Start is inhibited by the ECU because it wasn't in a "ready" condition when the key closed the "Start" switches.

On your car, you have no clutch switch, you have a neutral inhibitor relay in the AT shifter which completes the same logic circuit, but it's the same concept.

The TL : DR here is it's going to be hard or impossible to determine exactly what the problem is. Try charging your battery and see what happens.

This is my exact problem. The issue seems to have fixed itself since it worked yesterday after work and this morning it started without a problem. The only thing that has changed in the 4 days is the weather. When it was in the 40-50's the past 3 days the problem started. Yesterday it started to warm back up into the 60's and it seems to work again. Could just be coincidence but that's the only thing that has changed. My battery is only 1 year old and all the connections are tight.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

This is my exact problem. The issue seems to have fixed itself since it worked yesterday after work and this morning it started without a problem. The only thing that has changed in the 4 days is the weather. When it was in the 40-50's the past 3 days the problem started. Yesterday it started to warm back up into the 60's and it seems to work again. Could just be coincidence but that's the only thing that has changed. My battery is only 1 year old and all the connections are tight.

Your issue doesn't sound like the starter battery at all. If you turned the key and had slow crank or just clicks and no crank then the battery would be suspect. When you turn the key and there is nothing at all but it starts without hesitation on the second tray it means the battery is fine but you are not getting signal to the ecu for some reason. A bad switch wouldn't care what temperature it is and should be repeatable no matter what the weather conditions are so you need to keep digging.

[Riftur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Your issue doesn't sound like the starter battery at all. If you turned the key and had slow crank or just clicks and no crank then the battery would be suspect. When you turn the key and there is nothing at all but it starts without hesitation on the second tray it means the battery is fine but you are not getting signal to the ecu for some reason. A bad switch wouldn't care what temperature it is and should be repeatable no matter what the weather conditions are so you need to keep digging.

I knew it was not a battery issue. I was just stating it for the person who thought it might be. Something else happened yesterday again I am a bit worried about. I had the car in sport mode, came to a stop and the car stuttered like it was gonna stall. Like the idle was to low. It leveled out after about 2 secs and was find but it seems to happen occasionally now. It hasnt thrown up any codes so I don't know what the dealer will actually do. Its not like i can duplicate these issues on command.

Edit: Also I want to say thank you Tcoat for always trying to help everyone on this site. Your always the first to reply and try to help everyone. We are lucky to have you.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I knew it was not a battery issue. I was just stating it for the person who thought it might be. Something else happened yesterday again I am a bit worried about. I had the car in sport mode, came to a stop and the car stuttered like it was gonna stall. Like the idle was to low. It leveled out after about 2 secs and was find but it seems to happen occasionally now. It hasnt thrown up any codes so I don't know what the dealer will actually do. Its not like i can duplicate these issues on command.

Edit: Also I want to say thank you Tcoat for always trying to help everyone on this site. Your always the first to reply and try to help everyone. We are lucky to have you.

Thanks. Not everybody see things that way though.


Have you had the RPM TSB done? It is a simple reflash of the ECU. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1386706237