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Originally Posted by Maxim
there is no reason to pay more for a RWD layout. The only reason it's not more common is because of packaging issues for small cars which need to maximize interior space. (RWD also takes a small hit in terms of fuel economy because of the one extra directional change the power has to take on it's way from the crank to the wheels)
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When Mazda was initially developing the MX5, they also considered FF as it's cheaper to produce. They decided RWD was more important and went with FR (MR had also been on the plate).
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Originally Posted by Maxim
I see it as using the same recipe as the RX-8, plain and simple. It needs to be better than that.
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The RX8 is one of the most fun 4 seaters around, but it's a bit too heavy, its wheelbase is too long, and it gets horrible MPG. The Toyobaru will hopefully remedy all of that.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
And the S2000 prices kept pace with inflation....meaning that back when it first came out, it was also overpriced. It'd be more like 40k today.
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The S2000 was widely regarded as an exceptional value when it came out.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
The general public does not care if it's rear wheel drive, because they are too stupid to tell the difference.
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This car is not for the general public.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
Wont pay extra for RWD. Certainly won't pay extra for lightness in a TINY car.
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I will.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
The Miata is a convertible, which adds cost, and also has no competition, so it is not competitively priced.
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It faced the MRS, Solctice, and Sky. The latter two were sold at a loss and the MRS' impracticality prevented it from succeeding.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
It will handily beat your car in torque. It'll probably be comparable, engine-wise, to the 9th gen Civic, which has a 2.5L with 170ft/lbs.
If it was significantly lighter, it would be pretty good still....but I sincerely doubt it will be more than 150lbs lighter.
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If the Toyobaru has approx 150 ftlbs, just shy of 200 hp, and weighs 2700-2800 pounds, it ought to be very similar to the 2012 Civic Si (201 hp, 170 ftlbs, ~2870 pounds). Obviously this is speculative, but 0-60 in ~6.8 sec and the 1/4 mile in ~15.0 sec seems in the ballpark for that weight and output.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
If ANYBODY can think of a reason why this car should have Si performance, and not MS3 or GTI performance, they should speak up.
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Having driven all of those vehicles (many times in the case of the Si and GTI), I can honestly say I consider the Si and GTI to be about even. The GTI engine is the best (not as laggy as the MS3, but more oomph than the Si) but its shifter is only decent while the Si is actually quite good. The Si's chassis is more nimble and its driving dynamics are the best of the three. The MS3 engine was a let down (not responsive, didn't like to rev, and ran out of steam well before redline), but to be fair I haven't driven the 2nd gen MS3.
In any case, all three are soul-sucking FWD A-to-B cars compared to something like the MX5, RX8, or S2k.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
Who said anything about a 2.5L turbo?
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You wrote "If you want to knock the ball out of the park, offer it with a WRX engine, for WRX money". Here in the USA, the WRX gets a 2.5T. I see you're in Germany, but I was under the impression that the WRX has had a 2.5T over there since the GE chassis was introduced in 2008.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
It's 2xx ft/lbs of torque are not that much.
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That's 63% more engine torque than the Toyobaru's expected 150 ftlbs, which would mean needing beefier, heavier components and chassis.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
I AVERAGE 27.9 mpg in the city in my GTI - and most of that is in the city.
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That's anecdotal. Two of my friends' experiences with their GTIs were nothing like that.
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Originally Posted by Maxim
People need to stop viewing RWD+Light as something that should cost extra. Neither are. This car is going to be a scion and it will not have a premium interior - it should AT LEAST be able to match a GTI in performance for the money.
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I wouldn't buy a GTI or an Si because life is too short for understeer. I figure RWD adds a little cost, as does the Toyobaru being a lower volume car. If you don't value RWD and low weight, this car isn't for you (duh). To each his own.