Cons to a lowered weight pulley set?
 

I'm looking at the Raceseng Billet Aluminum S2 set and it sounds like it'd do nothing but good, but just wondering if there's any downside that my research is not coming up with? Thanks.

The downside is this question will ignite the same huge debate of why you should/shouldn't do this mod.
Basically 2 camps:
Best/cheapest mod ever and you will release at least 47GW or
By doing this mod your engine is going to explode.
Take your pick.

There are already threads on this subject.

Or - It's a dampener! No it's not!

Or simply neener neener

Also, keep in mind, similar kits have been out for subaru flat fours for a decade, I have yet to see any actual evidence that they have caused an engine to fail.

I would also point out that the crank pulley is the only part with any significant weight reduction versus stock. If you do crank pulley, you can save ~ 4lbs. If you do crank, water and alternator you save maybe 5-6lbs, and pay more and have more work for the install.

Lol my bad Raceseng is great these are just other options :P Buddy Club Racing Spec Pulley Kit with Fidanza QWIK-REV V2 Clutch Combo

Ill get back to you if i can remember the company i was thinking of >.<

I'd like to know why you wouldn't depend on @Raceseng given that they make amazing products and have some of the best customer service around. I'm not in the market for a Pulley set, but if I was I'd buy a Raceseng set in a heartbeat.

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Another vote for Raceseng here. Damn good, reputable company. That second part is the most important.


No cons to lightweight pulleys!

Seriously? Raceseng makes innovative and well-designed stuff. And even when something does happen down the road, such as their water pulley, they go out of their way to inform everyone, design a better one, and replace the ones that are out there at their cost. They're one of the most proactive companies I've seen.

I really really like buddy club but what's wrong with Raceseng? They seem really reputable and I haven't heard a single bad thing about them or their products.

Yea my bad i was like huh then i looked it up and noticed way wrong i was thinking of another company.

I honestly dunno what company i thought raceseng was how weird >.< ill have to ask my friend about companys that were bad... must of been something he mentioned that sounded close...

The only thing I don't like about some Raceseng pieces are the placement of engraved logos in areas that could add potential stress risers and unbalance a component. In those instances I see more race marketing than race engineering. I wouldn't consider them dangerous, just less than ideal when you have engineering in your name. I also recall seeing a few pieces on display at the Expo a year ago that looked pretty rough around the edges. I may be OCD, but shit like that is enough to keep me away from a company altogether even though it's not really fair if they happen to have a solid looking product like the camber plates.

Haha glad to hear you were mistaken lololol

Mine are on order set to deliver next week

Please tell us how you like them when you get them installed. More positive and really no negatives, but I'm gonna hold off for a few months til I get some definite answers

Crank pulley is an ok mod. You lose a few pounds off the end of the crank which equates to a few hundred pounds of "load". But, you lose the samll amount of vibration damopening that the stock pulley provides.

The other pulleys are a waste of money.

If you have an MT the crank pulley is less "impressive". If you have a AT you feel it more.

If you have an MT, do not mix a LWCP with a LWFW. By removing the mass and inertia from both sides of the crank you will cause all the vibration to be absorbed in the crank bearings. You will eat right through the bearings fast. We have seen bearing failures in as little as 2000 miles in EJ motors when combining a LWCP and a LWFW.

Super helpful comment. Thank you. So long story short, go for either a reduced weight flywheel or a reduced weight crank shaft but not both cause that = no Bueno.

What's the acceleration feel like with the new pulley?

Exactly, 1 or the other. Both is what goes boom.

On an AT you can feel the slight improvement in acceleration. Throttle response is snappier and the car gets off the line quicker. If you are uber nice to the throttle while cruising you can usually see a 1-2mpg increase as well.

On the MT it is not as noticeable. Same changes, just a smaller dose.

Gotcha. So me owning a manual I'll still feel a difference. . Just not as much as an auto.

In your opinion - as it seems you know your shit - is it worth it? Only 300 bucks or so and it seems to add a decent amount of performance.. and a possible MPG boost you say?

Can you explain why this would be? 4lbs off the crank pulley saves you the same amount of rotational mass on both a MT and AT. From a physics standpoint the power gain from it has to be identical, why do you say this is felt more in a AT?

Also 1-2mpg seems like quite the overstatement. 4lbs less of rotational mass at the crank typically equates to more like a .1-.2mpg at most in my experience. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

You'll feel a light weight flywheel more tho. I am pretty sure they can be had for not much more than the $300 you mentioned.

Feel install would be a lot more expensive for install though.... but in the end it's really what is better for the car. If I go that route what manufacturers should I look at??

Brand is down to personal preference. I personally like Toda as they work with the standard clutch and are chromoly steel. I haven't installed mine yet as I still need to track down some ARP bolts.

Thanks Turdinator. I was gonna do it this month but obviously I got some stuff to think about.

Seems like the other pulleys would be just as important. Don't they all share the same load? less weight less resistance......

I imagine his statement refers to the cost vs gains ratio of the other pullys. You lose roughly 4 pounds with the crank pulley at a cost of $145. To add the water pump and alternator pulley raises the cost by an additional $230 but you only lose roughly 0.5 pound. After that, replacing the idlers gets you roughly 0.3 pounds weight loss for another $120 when purchased in the S2 set or $225 when purchased alone.

Out of all of the pulleys available from raceseng the highest value comes in buying the crank pulley by itself or the complete S2 setup. The higher quality bearings in them are especially important if you are going to supercharge as people have had issues with pulleys melting/bearings giving out.

Looking solely at a cost/benefit ratio in this case is pretty misleading as those people are seeing an additional cost of $350 for all the other pulleys and only dropping the weight by ~0.9 lbs as opposed to the 4 lb reduction with only the crank pulley that only costs $145. They are not accounting for the better bearings that are in the idlers and the fact that they are no longer plastic.

Also as with everything else in modding cars, there are diminishing returns everywhere, especially on this platform while staying NA. The S2 kit might not meet everyone's needs, but those who want to squeak out every bit of performance they can understand that the lowest hanging fruit is always the first picked and everything else requires more effort/money.

I'm not going with a pulley kit just yet, but when I do it will most assuredly be a raceseng S2 set in black.

As for Infamous Performance claims of issues with pulleys and lightened flywheels, I have yet to see anyone talk of problems with the FA20 motor. Infact I'm fairly certain there are several people running full raceseng S2 set, lightened flywheels, and carbon driveshafts with no problems. Sure there might have been issues with the EJ's (uggh, hello 02-03 WRX) but this is a completely new motor and I'm failing to see how the two are related.

Every little bit counts when your staying NA. I'm surprised the rest of the pulley kit only saves 1lb. I'll be going with the complete S2 setup too once they fix the water pulley issue and a ***riveshaft/RPF1's a little later down the road.

Personally lightweight flywheels are about the worst thing you can do to a daily driver. It makes stop and go traffic a nightmare not to mention having every minivan smoke you off the line while your revving the shit out of your car like a jack ass so you don't bog down. Awesome for the track not so awesome on the street.

Going to a 10 lb. aluminum flywheel (13 lb. lighter than stock) on the Z was a GREAT mod. Easier/quicker shifting up and down the gears, and slightly QUICKER off the line, not slower. IMO a lightweight flywheel is a MUCH better and more effective mod than replacing the factory harmonic damper with a slightly lighter-weight solid pulley which will increase dynamic stresses in the crank and give about zero discernible performance benefit.

I've had two lightweight flywheels, one on a 05 20G STi another on a BT Gt28rs Audi A4. Both were terrible. Maybe it was due to the specific set up but they were a buzz kill.

Theirs no harmonic dampener on a flat 4. "Zero performance benefits" is also a bold statement for 5lb's off the rotational mass that a pulley kit will get you. Sure it doesn't show up on a dyno but the car will accelerate faster using the same amount of power. My 510 only has a 110 HP and it smokes my BRZ off the line. Numbers arnt everything.

Not this again!

I researched this feverishly a few months back. I started a similar thread that induced a lengthy debate. As always with this topic, no one agreed on anything.

Here is my opinion: Despite what others may say I believe the crank shaft pulley IS in fact a harmonic dampener (NOT a harmonic balancer). The debate over this will never be settled. What I think most of us can agree on, however, is that the performance benefits of a new crank pulley are marginal at best. When we weigh the possible costs against these marginal gains it seems apparent that a pulley simply isn't worth it. Despite what you believe why would you put your engine at risk (even if only perceived) for what amounts to very minimal benefit?

My 2 cents...

http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...per-917991.jpg
What about a super damper? :) @wootwoot

Biggest con seems to me is that your wallet is now lighter.

waste of $ imo

Part of the weight savings brah!

I should be a part of the weight gaining club. I'm not good at weight savings on the car

Share the weight gains and put some of those benjamins in my pocket ;)

Marginal gains for marginal money, doesn't seem like that bad of a deal to me. Guess it all comes down to what you want to accomplish with your build. Going FI or staying stock, then ya it's kinda worthless. Trying to squeeze out every last bit of power from a NA setup in conjunction with a CF driveshaft, lightweight rotors and wheels then it might be worth it

Same ol' same ol'.
Yeah, I'm quoting myself.

That's weird. I seem to have got the possible powa increase mixed up. 47GW or 40 megaWatts is still a metric truck load. You would be better off using imperial measurements because then you would have even more powa.

At $300 I hesitate. At $150 I buy. Pricing on FA pulleys is higher than EJ pulleys and it is a production numbers game. So, I would expect up to $250 for a FA pulley (for now).

On my own AT cars I run a LWCP. On my MT cars I run a LWFW.

Torque converter. AT's do not transfer power the same as MT's. Just as AT cars do not accelerate as fast as MT cars (from the factory).

Yes. My own AT cars. Due to electronic throttle and tuning there is always a sweet spot for cruising MPG. Find the sweet spot and with a LWCP you can gain 1-2 MPG cruising. Its not that easy to drive in the sweet spot (it takes some modulation) and its not any fun. So, 99.97% of owners never realize it. They are not putting go fast parts on the car and then not using the throttle.

The is so little to be had by replacing the alt and water pump pulleys it is not worth the expense. If it is a pure race car and you earn a living winning, it makes a difference.

On forced induction cars running all 3 LW pulleys we have seen issues with load changes that cause idle stumbles/stalls.

The FA block is similar enough to the EJ. Neither motor has a harmonic balancer. Both motors rely on the small amount of rubber in the crank pulley to absorb vibration. We have already seen internal bearing damage from combining a LWCP and LWFW in the FA motor.