The Torquiest Header?
 

Hey guys. Ive been researching headers for years and I suppose I just need some first hand experience. I have the rest sorted, A JDL Dual Resonated FP and a CSG Touring Cat Back is going to go with whatever choice. But Im looking for the highest/flattest torque numbers from a header. Top end Im really not concerned with.

So some choices I have in mind:
Ace CS400
JDL UEL
P&L
FT86 Speedfactory RACE (catless)
Open Flash OFH3 (discontinued??)

Obviously Ill have them tuned, but I cant find Dyno sheets on all of them to compare. Also the header will determine how I tune. If a tablet isnt enough, Id like a full Delicious kit with flex fuel.

And here we go.....

There are many more threads than these as well..

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31555
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127080
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115623
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85008

I know this has been gone over, and over, and over. Im sort of looking for specific examples. Like, Ive never seen a CS400 dyno sheet. I get it! But other things, like what happened to the OFH3? The one with the OP designed in like ACE.

Then there is the Tomei thats stupid cheap, but is it good enough for the money?
Then theres a JDL EL tuned with a flat torque curve.
I just want extra/smarter eyes to give me a little help.

These are bad numbers from a tuned header, but an example.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...8&d=1406049888

Has anyone had engine failures related to the valve spring recall???

154HP and 135tq from an ACE CS400?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2640680
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1462174517

...better. But testing was done at 54*F, Pretty chilly.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111848
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1477018718

Looks like you already know what to do, if money isn't an issue, Ace DT flex fuel tuner package is the answer to all your prayers. will give you the best of the best in all regards. Just costs a premium if your willing to pay to play.

No delicious, no header, no flex feul. Put all that money toward a JRSC & dyno. Headers are like + or - 5 whp. 5-6 grand u could be boosted with +50% whp. How much it header and tune and all that going to cost and for what 10 hp?

I've driven 86's with the Ace, JDL, and P&L.. can't go wrong with any of them. Unless you're looking to shave as many tenths of a second off your lap time, I wouldn't get so caught up in the "highest" torque numbers.. Those 3 will all give you a flat torque curve if tuned right. Just pick any of them and see which one you can get at the lowest price.

Dyno sheets may have slightly different results, but you can't really 'feel' a difference between a few lb-ft on a flat torque curve. They're all "great" headers that will make a night-n-day driving difference (vs. stock) after you tune it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...=111848&page=5

Page 4 (CS400)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...923/xmllqP.jpg

No boost for now. Thats a box I dont feel like digging through. BUT... If I did, it would be Jackson Racing or HKS V3.

Also, the headers Im looking at are about 30hp and 25ftlbs. Not much to you boost nerds jumping in increments of 100, but enough for a 2800lb car.

This is the critical statement! Even the stock parts can give you more torque on a flatter curve with a decent tune. There are no magic bolt on parts that are going to give even minor increases without a tune.
I know the OP understands that but it bears pointing out for others that read this.

bottom = stock 17
middle = Ace + tune
top = Ace + tune + flex

No other powertrain mods.


https://i.imgur.com/wa11rJF.jpg

Half the gains of a SC, for half the price, with none of the complexity.

One is shoving air into an engine and increasing stress. The other is increasing efficiency.

The best part, is that the two can, and is often, stacked together for even more gains.

On our PTUNING 4-1 Header we regularly see approximately 200WHP. This is a customers car that is bone stock with just our header and an Ecutek dyno tune

@CSG Mike

Thanks for your input. Those are big gains, Im assuming from an ACE 350? Call me picky, but the dip is still between 3500-4500. About 8ftlbs. Could it be possible to tune 150+ from 3500-5000 and level the HP from 6000-7000? Peak at 185HP? (93 pump) I dont know the limitations of tuning and how malleable those lines are. Or are these questions for the guy with a laptop?

Not sure what you are asking. You want less power but flat? You could always pull timing and or add fuel to make less power in spots to flatten everything at a lower number. Not sure the point of that.

At any speed above 20mph at WOT you should never really be under 5,000rpm just downshift. Low end is either getting off the line in 1st. Or daily driving and that torque curve would pretty much be best as far as headers go for either scenario.

Pretty solid, nice top end. Do you have the stock baseline for that car?

I do not for that particular vehicle, but on our Dyno Dynamics we usually see around 160-165WHP on a bone stock car.

Um... So the bump where stock is the worst bothers you?

N/A is never smooth if fully optimized. I'm sure they'd happily flatten that bump for you, but then you miss on the peak gains (61ft/lbs on e85... at 4700rpm where you'll love it). Note it's again about the same above that bump. So not a dip anywhere, just a couple peaks, likely due to the tuning frequencies of the header.

That is the Ace 350 I believe, and its the best midrange gains easy to find any more. There are headers (including from Ace) with better peak power but lower gains down low.

C

That is indeed the A350.

Also, the gas tunes are on ACN91, so you can expect better results on non-AC91, and even higher results on 93.

Power can always be detuned to be flat, and detuning is done quite often when tuning race cars that want a specific power-weight ratio, where powerband is not mandated.

how are dynos in USA always put crazy values
when we in italy almost every dyno put around 133whp bone stock with 100Ron and you are lucky to get 160 whp with a catless EL header with 100Ron ecutek tuned

Decat OEM header with catless 2.5" exhaust, 98ron

Everyone has a dyno plot

Don't sweat the peak

Oh, and...:sigh:

honestly choose between Ace & Ptuning. Those are the best options, and don't expect a "flat" torque curve, those only happen with forced induction. If you can take a trip to have one of the other dyno tuned, that is the one you should choose.

If you are interested in a PTUNING header then we do have a group buy currently going on. PM me for more details

I pictured tuning like moving a tent post under a tent. If you moved the peak, the immediate area around it would tapper off each end. But I guess thats a camshaft thing? But from what I hear, tuning is about pushing each peg as far up as possible without the peg getting pushed out. And the total engine determines the length of each peg.

Then Im looking for 150ftlbs from 3-5000rpm on 93. Kinda like this. And Im pretty sure thats all down to which header I put on.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...923/xmllqP.jpg

Moving the powerband around like that is usually through a culmination of parts. Some of the main ones being; Intake manifold runner length, camshaft profiles, header design and then finally a tune to maximize it all.
Most 4-2-1 headers will give you a relatively flat torque curve on these cars, but don't kid yourself into thinking you can get modern turbo cars like max torque off throttle or V8/Large displacement levels of grunt.

I also highly recommend you throw the JDL 4-2-1 EL header on your list.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=169

The ones Im leaning toward are the FT86 Catless, and the Ace CS400. Mainly because I dont want full boxer or full Honda noise from the exhaust. My first choice a long time ago was the HKS, until I heard it. But if something like the OFH2 or JDL uel gives me better results, I can go full Subaru.

The JDL 4-2-1 is an EQUAL LENGTH header. It will not give you the boxer rumble.

I just saw that in an older Ace 350 thread. It looks like the power is good, but doesnt come with an OP. It also matches the price of an Ace CS400 at $1400.

The header just came out sometime Q4 last year. Older posts may be referencing the 4-1 not the new 4-2-1.

It's $1350 with ceramic coating. $1200 without.

$1200+200 for an overpipe =1400 about the same as a CS400.


I really don't care if you're set on a CS400 and don't care to compare the JDL but, for reference when other people come looking for answers, at least be factual and compare apples to apples.

Then I see stuff like this...
And it makes me want to buy a used Tomei and OP for $5-600 and deal with the rumble.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130575
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1538742495

Good idea imo. Otherwise you can debate this for infinity

The % delta is what truly matters. Absolute readings should always be taken with a grain of salt.

This is why having a baseline is so important. Without a baseline, you can't get the % delta, and then, it literally becomes just a number.

FYI there's a post on FB about a potential PTuning header group buy for just a smidge over 1K if anybody is thinking about that header.

IMHO if you want to stay NA and you want 'torque', I think it's a better buy to get a cheap used 'quality' header from the board here (i.e. P&L, JDL, that pops up), custom tune it, and use the rest for a FD swap. You could probably do all of that for the cost of one ACE header.

This one?? Still a dip. Its a 200whp EL header.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=1888721

Yup that's the one, it's one of the better headers out there. Just raising awareness as I saw it pop up.

Fking this.