Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   2013 FRS Reliability? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77248)

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-12-2014 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djratrap (Post 2019333)
I wish it were only a "few" bad cookies.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15577

Unfortunately it's around 280, and those are the ones on the forum. Who knows how many have actually had the issues/will have them in the future?
Wasn't that issue only really effecting the 2013s? plus it hasn't been updated in 3 months with the latest sale figures

strat61caster 11-12-2014 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djratrap (Post 2019333)
I wish it were only a "few" bad cookies.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15577

Unfortunately it's around 280, and those are the ones on the forum. Who knows how many have actually had the issues/will have them in the future?
280 out of 54263 cars sold is a 0.5% failure rate, if only 50% of cars were reported we are talking about literally 99% of cars have not had this issue.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766

Djratrap 11-12-2014 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2019348)
Wasn't that issue only really effecting the 2013s? plus it hasn't been updated in 3 months with the latest sale figures
I've seen some 2014s on the thread. So i don't think those are safe either.

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-12-2014 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djratrap (Post 2019470)
I've seen some 2014s on the thread. So i don't think those are safe either.
That's still an extremely small percentage if you do the math

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-12-2014 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2019444)
280 out of 54263 cars sold is a 0.5% failure rate, if only 50% of cars were reported we are talking about literally 99% of cars have not had this issue.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766
And that percentage goes even lower assuming some of those 280 didn't have a complete "failure"

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-12-2014 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djratrap (Post 2019470)
I've seen some 2014s on the thread. So i don't think those are safe either.
As @strat61caster explained its still a small amount, it's still under the "bad batch of cookies analogy assuming that only 31 out of 280 actually were unrepairable after multiple repair attempts or failed completely or burned to the ground. So if up to 55000 have been already sold (even more so now as thats an older figure by a month or two). That's still around 0.05% that are total losses, I really see no massive issue as Toyota have always attempted repairs for the vehicles under warranty as well.

Tcoat 11-12-2014 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djratrap (Post 2019470)
I've seen some 2014s on the thread. So i don't think those are safe either.
Some of the "14s" were, of course, made fairly early in 13 so they may have the issue.
Any 14s made after the problem was fixed should be fine.
Mine has a build date of May 14 so would be one of the last 14 runs before they switched to the 15s and I have never had a single issue.

Djratrap 11-12-2014 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2019483)
As @strat61caster explained its still a small amount, it's still under the "bad batch of cookies analogy assuming that only 31 out of 280 actually were unrepairable after multiple repair attempts or failed completely or burned to the ground. So if up to 55000 have been already sold (even more so now as thats an older figure by a month or two). That's still around 0.05% that are total losses, I really see no massive issue as Toyota have always attempted repairs for the vehicles under warranty as well.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see when guys start hitting the 100k mark. I suspect a lot of leaky head gaskets, but hopefully nothing major.

radroach 11-12-2014 04:19 PM
I'm at 40k miles the car has shown me that it's pretty tough. Only problem I've ever had was a weird VVT noise after long road trips, would hear some sort of metallic rapping of sorts from the engine. It didn't ever sound like something was damaged, just loud and whirry for a moment. Went away though and hasn't come back in 10k miles.

NOHOME 11-12-2014 04:31 PM
It is too early to really know. I figure the first 5 years are the honeymoon with a new car. How it behaves over the next 5 is the real indicator of reliability and cost to operate.

The engine seems to be an unknown at this point and both reliability and longevity are to be determined.

My observation after 2 winters is that there wont be much left of the undersides of this car after winter #10. Sound deadening, sealant and coatings were minimized in the quest for low weight. And I DO oil coat the underside.

I would reconsider buying a 2013. There were some niggling issues with the early cars, and if one is on the market so soon, I can't help but wonder if it is not from a fed-up owner. Head over to the warranties section of this board to see what might apply. Do a search for "Crickets" for one of the worst offenders along with bad shifting, direct injector seal failure and slow gearboxes.

I believe that 2014 saw most of the issues resolved.

DarkSunrise 11-12-2014 04:56 PM
I've had my 2013 for a little over 2 years. Bought it new and it's got around 16,000 miles now. Roughly 1,000 of those were at the track. It's done a few autocrosses as well.

The car's been pretty reliable all things considered. Had the rough idle CEL fixed by re-flash early on. Need to get one of my window switches replaced as the auto function is not consistent.

Other than that, no real issues. The transmission was very notchy early on, but that seems to have fixed itself over time and with better shifts.

Tcoat 11-12-2014 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOHOME (Post 2019832)

I would reconsider buying a 2013. There were some niggling issues with the early cars, and if one is on the market so soon, I can't help but wonder if it is not from a fed-up owner.
I believe that 2014 saw most of the issues resolved.
The fact that any brand new platform has issues is not a new thing and it probably killed some potently great cars over the years.
My dad had one of the very first Jeep Cherokees to roll off the line and he didn't even get it a block from the dealer before the serious issues started. It didn't get better either.
There is a price we pay for wanting to be the first to have something new on the market.

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-13-2014 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djratrap (Post 2019751)
I guess we'll just have to wait and see when guys start hitting the 100k mark. I suspect a lot of leaky head gaskets, but hopefully nothing major.

Why head gaskets?

Tcoat 11-13-2014 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2021384)
Why head gaskets?
Ya, I was wondering that as well but too shy to ask.

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-13-2014 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2021442)
Ya, I was wondering that as well but too shy to ask.
Yea its a totally irrelevant issue I haven't seen one car with any issues involving the head gasket he might be talking out of his ass lol

Tcoat 11-13-2014 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2021444)
Yea its a totally irrelevant issue I haven't seen one car with any issues involving the head gasket he might be talking out of his ass lol
Or not. He may have something there (even though not the same engine)


http://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/2...d-gasket-issue


http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...gasket-issues/

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-13-2014 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2021453)
Or not. He may have something there (even though not the same engine)


http://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/2...d-gasket-issue


http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...gasket-issues/

diddly DO NEIGHBORINO!Thu, 01/30/2014 - 10:51am - Noah Levy
http://www.licmotorsports.com/sites/...d/IMG_1938.JPG


Non turbo 4 cylinder applications all have head gasket issues, you've heard this before, most of you know this, and yes its a result of a bad/faulty design with the gasket.

The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles. That range is dependent on if you've run the SOA mandatory coolant conditioner, which is designed to get you past that 100k mile hump).

The symptom of leaking "head gaskets" is oil weeping between the head/block surfaces. This weep over time turns into a significant leak, which then turns into coolant leaking as well, after that symptom you often times will go into overheating, from there its a few mile slippery slope...which then has coolant and oil intermingling together.

If you haven't guessed it yet, this is where bearings get trashed, you develop a rod knock and hopefully at this point you've realized its about to be over but recognize before the next critical stage.

The sad thing is....it doesn't need to get to this point. If you work with a specialty shop its easy to point out early on when this is happening (at the weeping stage) and proactively fixing it. By doing so, you 1- secure your investment with your vehicle, 2- save yourself the headache of being broken down on the side of the road, and 3- you get to enjoy your car for another X amount of miles b/c you didn't let it catastrophically fail.

Did you know when we do head gasket jobs here at LIC Motorsports we don't install the same gaskets that do the same thing? Would you be shocked to know that the dealer and most other independents still install these bad/faulty gaskets to this day when they perform this job (reason being is Subaru hasn't revised the gasket on the older SOHC vehicles).

In case you were wondering, anything up to these have head gasket issues, which is: The older EJ series motors, which those vehicles are up to 2009 Legacy/Outback, 2010 for Forester, 2011 for Impreza.



we gotta wait for the fa20

Tcoat 11-13-2014 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2021523)
diddly DO NEIGHBORINO!Thu, 01/30/2014 - 10:51am - Noah Levy



Non turbo 4 cylinder applications all have head gasket issues, you've heard this before, most of you know this, and yes its a result of a bad/faulty design with the gasket.

The factory gaskets have a coating that deteriorates over time (typically between 80-120k miles. That range is dependent on if you've run the SOA mandatory coolant conditioner, which is designed to get you past that 100k mile hump).

The symptom of leaking "head gaskets" is oil weeping between the head/block surfaces. This weep over time turns into a significant leak, which then turns into coolant leaking as well, after that symptom you often times will go into overheating, from there its a few mile slippery slope...which then has coolant and oil intermingling together.

If you haven't guessed it yet, this is where bearings get trashed, you develop a rod knock and hopefully at this point you've realized its about to be over but recognize before the next critical stage.

The sad thing is....it doesn't need to get to this point. If you work with a specialty shop its easy to point out early on when this is happening (at the weeping stage) and proactively fixing it. By doing so, you 1- secure your investment with your vehicle, 2- save yourself the headache of being broken down on the side of the road, and 3- you get to enjoy your car for another X amount of miles b/c you didn't let it catastrophically fail.

Did you know when we do head gasket jobs here at LIC Motorsports we don't install the same gaskets that do the same thing? Would you be shocked to know that the dealer and most other independents still install these bad/faulty gaskets to this day when they perform this job (reason being is Subaru hasn't revised the gasket on the older SOHC vehicles).

In case you were wondering, anything up to these have head gasket issues, which is: The older EJ series motors, which those vehicles are up to 2009 Legacy/Outback, 2010 for Forester, 2011 for Impreza.



we gotta wait for the fa20
Keeping in mid this is from some place trying to sell their service. They aren't very subtle with their "We do it right everybody else sucks" promo>

NOHOME 11-14-2014 10:48 AM
The deal is...at about 100,000 miles the car is going to be worth maybe 4-5k max in value.

With shop rates at Toyota running $125/hour today, and only going up as time moves on, this little piece of maintenance is going to run well over $2000.

You would be better to part out the car and move on at that point rather than pour the money into the repair.

To me, these kind of repairs are not acceptable. I have become used to Mazda (piston engine) levels of reliability, and if the FRS pulls this stunt at the low mileage of 100,000, it will be the last Subaru product that I own.

The take-home message I am getting is that the FRS might become like the RX8: Great chassis for those that don't mind keeping spare engines under the bench and are capable of swapping them in on their own. How well did that work for the RX8?

Tcoat 11-14-2014 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOHOME (Post 2022197)
The deal is...at about 100,000 miles the car is going to be worth maybe 4-5k max in value.

With shop rates at Toyota running $125/hour today, and only going up as time moves on, this little piece of maintenance is going to run well over $2000.

You would be better to part out the car and move on at that point rather than pour the money into the repair.

To me, these kind of repairs are not acceptable. I have become used to Mazda (piston engine) levels of reliability, and if the FRS pulls this stunt at the low mileage of 100,000, it will be the last Subaru product that I own.

The take-home message I am getting is that the FRS might become like the RX8: Great chassis for those that don't mind keeping spare engines under the bench and are capable of swapping them in on their own. How well did that work for the RX8?
All conjecture at this point. Not all the Subaru engines have an issue and hopefully it doesn't appear. Way too early at this point to simply assume there will be problems.
Same as not all Mazda's had perfect engines and certainly had some serious rust issues for many years.

Djratrap 11-14-2014 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2021384)
Why head gaskets?
High compression engines...just my experience with them. Subie boxer motors are pretty known for their head gasket issues. I'm making premature assumptions so take them with a grain of salt. I guess we'll see once people start hitting 100k+ miles.

NOHOME 11-14-2014 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2022212)
All conjecture at this point. Not all the Subaru engines have an issue and hopefully it doesn't appear. Way too early at this point to simply assume there will be problems.
Same as not all Mazda's had perfect engines and certainly had some serious rust issues for many years.

No, not all Mazda engines were perfect. The one in my Miata died of a broken crankshaft nose. I was lucky and made it to 300,000 km before it did so.

It would be fair to say that I bought the car on emotion and am doing due-diligence after the fact. Spoke with a mechanic who had served time at Subaru dealership and he asked me if the oil burning at start-up had begun yet..."They all do it around year three" was his observation. Can't say as that gave me the warm fuzzies.

All I need is ten years total and maybe 150,000 miles and I will be good. The question to be answered is if I will be good enough to want to buy another Subaru product? The new Miata does look good!

Tcoat 11-14-2014 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOHOME (Post 2022448)
No, not all Mazda engines were perfect. The one in my Miata died of a broken crankshaft nose. I was lucky and made it to 300,000 km before it did so.

It would be fair to say that I bought the car on emotion and am doing due-diligence after the fact. Spoke with a mechanic who had served time at Subaru dealership and he asked me if the oil burning at start-up had begun yet..."They all do it around year three" was his observation. Can't say as that gave me the warm fuzzies.

All I need is ten years total and maybe 150,000 miles and I will be good. The question to be answered is if I will be good enough to want to buy another Subaru product? The new Miata does look good!
I bought my last car purely on emotion and learned my lesson the hard way so put many hours into my due diligence this time around. Didn't find anything that scared me tooooo much.
I will be able to tell in only a couple of years though as I do about 40K miles a year!

tennisfreak 11-14-2014 04:34 PM
Well my 2013 started making really loud clunking noises from the rear (seems to be on the right side maybe) axle area. It happened twice this morning once from a dead stop and another time on a roll about 10mph as I let the clutch out when shifting from 1st to 2nd.

It was really cold today and after the car warmed up it did not happen anymore. But now I feel like I can hear a slight click from the rear after letting clutch out and hitting gas on any gear.

My car has less than 20k miles.

Tcoat 11-14-2014 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak (Post 2022691)
Well my 2013 started making really loud clunking noises from the rear (seems to be on the right side maybe) axle area. It happened twice this morning once from a dead stop and another time on a roll about 10mph as I let the clutch out when shifting from 1st to 2nd.

It was really cold today and after the car warmed up it did not happen anymore. But now I feel like I can hear a slight click from the rear after letting clutch out and hitting gas on any gear.

My car has less than 20k miles.
That sucks, but I have to ask:
What does a guy in Texas classify as "really cold"?

tennisfreak 11-14-2014 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2022701)
That sucks, but I have to ask:
What does a guy in Texas classify as "really cold"?
27 degrees, LOL. For Nov 14 this is record lows for us.

Butt cold is anything under 25.

Colder that a witches titty in a brass bra is anything under 20.

I dont think I can remember it ever getting below 15 degrees.

Tcoat 11-14-2014 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak (Post 2022710)
27 degrees, LOL. For Nov 14 this is record lows for us.

Butt cold is anything under 25.

Colder that a witches titty in a brass bra is anything under 20.

I dont think I can remember it ever getting below 15 degrees.
Pfffff Tropical!
I am waiting to see what weird and wonderful noises I start to hear when it gets really cold here. Already getting speaker buzz that I never had once when it was warm.
Good news for me is that (so far) even with sub zero (C not F) a couple of nights mine seems to be immune to the dreaded stiff second gear issue.

strat61caster 11-14-2014 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak (Post 2022710)
27 degrees, LOL. For Nov 14 this is record lows for us.

Butt cold is anything under 25.

Colder that a witches titty in a brass bra is anything under 20.

I dont think I can remember it ever getting below 15 degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2022715)
Pfffff Tropical!
I am waiting to see what weird and wonderful noises I start to hear when it gets really cold here. Already getting speaker buzz that I never had once when it was warm.
Good news for me is that (so far) even with sub zero (C not F) a couple of nights mine seems to be immune to the dreaded stiff second gear issue.

From California, you guys are both talking Celsius right?

Tcoat 11-14-2014 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2022826)
From California, you guys are both talking Celsius right?
I am at any rate!

BobRickel 11-14-2014 10:16 PM
1 Attachment(s)
My car is a 2013 Whiteout with A/T, it was a very early production car. Original owner blew the engine with 600 miles. Toyota put in a new engine and put 600 miles on the car to break in the new engine and went to give him his car back and he said "no". He lemon lawed the car. I bought it this past January with 1200 miles for $20K. Full factory warranty plus 1 year from my date of purchase under Federal Lemon Law. I have put 24,000 miles on her since January. No issues other than a small drip on D/S window in car wash. Dealer replaced the weatherstrip and no more leaks. Love this car.

tennisfreak 11-15-2014 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2022826)
From California, you guys are both talking Celsius right?
I was talking farenheight (how do you spell this damn word!!!)

dnieves 11-15-2014 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak (Post 2023484)
I was talking farenheight (how do you spell this damn word!!!)




Fahrenheit :thumbup:

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-15-2014 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisfreak (Post 2023484)
I was talking farenheight (how do you spell this damn word!!!)
Kelvin.....

Tcoat 11-15-2014 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN (Post 2023628)
Kelvin.....
Oh that would truly suck!

FRSBRZGT86FAN 11-15-2014 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2023644)
Oh that would truly suck!
Really? It's only + 273

neutral 11-16-2014 06:21 PM
40,000 miles. Pre-ordered back in 2012. Turbocharged with Full Blown's kit for 1,000 miles. No mechanical issues as of yet (keeping my fingers crossed)

whataboutbob 11-17-2014 05:28 PM
Over 70,300 miles after this weekend.


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