Road tuning with OFT

[steve99]

Originally Posted by BuBlake

Is that just an assumption or do you know that the Fa20club actually flows less at any given RPM? I understand that the MAF sensor just measures a sliver which is why it needs to be calibrated for different intakes. MAF sensor outputs the amount of voltage needed to keep its wire at a specified temperature.(what is that temperature anyways?)

If I'm not mistaken, AFR target(or commanded AFR) is what I am seeing in the logs when in open loop fueling. I would understand if my AFR readings from a wideband O2 sensor were 11.25:1 when they were commanded 11.8:1 if my MAF scale was poorly calibrated, but not my commanded AFR. Why would the ECU change the AFR target? Is it going into limp mode? Is it making educated guesses from what it experienced in closed loop fueling, in a sense?

can you post a log like this ?

http://datazap.me/u/steve99/test-sol...zoom=1767-2066

[BuBlake]

Originally Posted by steve99

can you post a log like this ?

http://datazap.me/u/steve99/test-sol...zoom=1767-2066

Just noticed something... That log has a "commanded AFR"... Holy crap. I didn't know OFT had a commanded AFR output. I thought it was all from the same AFR reading because AFR would be impossible to read under OL conditions anyways.(but apparently it can be, but I still believe it is not used to adjust AFR)

Hmm well that clarifies a lot! I now know I have something that actually measures my AFR while in OL. That solid 11.25 AFR only solidified my uneducated assumption that it was a commanded AFR. In fact, my commanded AFR is probably exactly what is from the Open Loop Fueling Table!

I will have the new log in the next 24hrs... er... Hopefully that commanded AFR reading is from OFT and not something else... Is this all a misunderstanding now? lol

[steve99]

Originally Posted by BuBlake

Just noticed something... That log has a "commanded AFR"... Holy crap. I didn't know OFT had a commanded AFR output. I thought it was all from the same AFR reading because AFR would be impossible to read under OL conditions anyways.(but apparently it can be, but I still believe it is not used to adjust AFR)

Hmm well that clarifies a lot! I now know I have something that actually measures my AFR while in OL. That solid 11.25 AFR only solidified my uneducated assumption that it was a commanded AFR. In fact, my commanded AFR is probably exactly what is from the Open Loop Fueling Table!

I will have the new log in the next 24hrs... er... Hopefully that commanded AFR reading is from OFT and not something else... Is this all a misunderstanding now? lol

Commanded AFR = whats in OL Fuel table during WOT
AFR = measured AFR from front o2 sensor
Wideband AFR = AFR measured by rear 02 sensor (calibration my be off as its for an Bosch Wideband o2 sensor (LSU4.2) with controller)

[Wepeel]

I've also seen threads like this
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60225

That indicate the stock o2 is inaccurate under anything less than low 12's. So I'm not sure how much to believe the stock AFR numbers. Since the trims and AFR are fine in ranges where commanded is about low 12's, and since OFT commands afr's in the high 11's during OL, maybe it's just the inaccuracy of the stock o2 at afr's that low.

Of course, that wouldn't explain why others are hitting afr targets in the high 11's. Hmm.

[BuBlake]

Originally Posted by steve99

Commanded AFR = whats in OL Fuel table
AFR = measured AFR from front o2 sensor
Wideband AFR = AFR measured by rear 02 sensor (calibration my be off as its for an AEM wideband with controller)

I never looked for commanded AFR. I thought that the "AFR" output was doing double duty: showing commanded as well as measured depending on whether it was CL or OL. Now that I know the "AFR" output is purely measured and there is a separate output in logs for commanded AFR, this changes my game plan entirely!

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by BuBlake

I never looked for commanded AFR. I thought that the "AFR" output was doing double duty: showing commanded as well as measured depending on whether it was CL or OL. Now that I know the "AFR" output is purely measured and there is a separate output in logs for commanded AFR, this changes my game plan entirely!

As Shiv said, scale that MAF or swap back to stock for best results

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

I've also seen threads like this
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60225

That indicate the stock o2 is inaccurate under anything less than low 12's. So I'm not sure how much to believe the stock AFR numbers. Since the trims and AFR are fine in ranges where commanded is about low 12's, and since OFT commands afr's in the high 11's during OL, maybe it's just the inaccuracy of the stock o2 at afr's that low.

Of course, that wouldn't explain why others are hitting afr targets in the high 11's. Hmm.

Yeah you're right his log has very abrupt changes while your's was much more gradual in terms of AFR measured and logged.

[s2d4]

FA20club intake is the best, don't go back to the stock intake just because everyone else have seen the logs.
You know best.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by BuBlake

I never looked for commanded AFR. I thought that the "AFR" output was doing double duty: showing commanded as well as measured depending on whether it was CL or OL. Now that I know the "AFR" output is purely measured and there is a separate output in logs for commanded AFR, this changes my game plan entirely!

The AFR is the output from the front O2 sensor. It is still active in open loop, however it makes no compensations from what it reads.


As far as the O2 effectiveness, it is more accurate (it seems) at higher AFRs but isn't bad at a ballpark figure. However, in the low 11s I would take it's reading with a pinch of salt.

[BuBlake]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

The AFR is the output from the front O2 sensor. It is still active in open loop, however it makes no compensations from what it reads.


As far as the O2 effectiveness, it is more accurate (it seems) at higher AFRs but isn't bad at a ballpark figure. However, in the low 11s I would take it's reading with a pinch of salt.

Thank you for clarifying. That's what I thought, believe it or not, but when you think that the measured AFR is the commanded AFR you're bound to make some erroneous presumptions. haha!

My logs are worse than I thought.. Looks like every WOT run I did in 3rd from 2k-7k rpm the AFR was dropping to <=11.25:1 consistently everywhere above 3.5k rpm. Probably just measuring too high of a CFM at >3v or so on the MAF scale... Is the excel spreadsheet even necessary? Isn't it possible to make a pretty good correction by just using common sense and the logs?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by BuBlake

Thank you for clarifying. That's what I thought, believe it or not, but when you think that the measured AFR is the commanded AFR you're bound to make some erroneous presumptions. haha!

My logs are worse than I thought.. Looks like every WOT run I did in 3rd from 2k-7k rpm the AFR was dropping to <=11.25:1 consistently everywhere above 3.5k rpm. Probably just measuring too high of a CFM at >3v or so on the MAF scale... Is the excel spreadsheet even necessary? Isn't it possible to make a pretty good correction by just using common sense and the logs?

use the VGI maf scaling tool it magic does all the calculations then just cut/paste new scale into romraider.

[BuBlake]

Originally Posted by steve99

use the VGI maf scaling tool it magic does all the calculations then just cut/paste new scale into romraider.

Awesome. Haven't had a chance to do anything but have a look at the utility yet. It has MAF scaling down to a science. Brilliant! haha I need to take care of an air leak on my exhaust first. Seems that all the backfiring has finally taken its toll and blown a seal somewhere around the catback.

[BuBlake]

Alright I used the utility and got a new curve. Love it! It is so well designed and easy to use. Even has in-program instructions.

The new curve adjusted to make it assume around 10% lower cfms per voltage above around 2.5v. Example: 280cfm at 5v corrected instead of the current 315cfm at 5v. Does this mean the Fa20club flows worse than the stock intake?

Only problem I am having now is I cannot copy/paste the new curve into RR. I highlight the corrected mass flow cells in the scaler, ctrl+C, then highlight the mass flow in RR, ctrl+V and nothing happens. Seems like a fairly simple issue, but it's driving me out of my mind. lol (edit, figured it out.. derp!: just highlighted all corrected cells including voltages, then right clicked to select "copy romraider", then went to maf scale in RR and clicked edit/paste and all values were successfully implemented.) Going to flash the new file and see what happens now!

[v86]

While using this tool I happened to come across this aswell.

The problem is that RR for some reason start with:
[Selection1D]

Instead of the actual numbers. My advice to you would be to use notepad. copy and paste the new numbers as follows:

[Selection1D]
0.85 1.0025 1.1875 1.4024999999999999

From there just copy and paste to RR.

Cheers