Floating feeling

[ap5512]

Originally Posted by DriftEightSix

For a while now I feel like I am floating alot through corners and it doesn't feel as precise as it once did or I am too used to how it feels and its not stiff enough.

Even when I am driving 60km(normal road speed limit) i can feel the car move about in my lane and always correcting where it is moving around.

What would be the cause of this?

I've have done 8000kms on the car and it is completely stock heaps of rubber left.

I did have a puncture in my rear right tyre this as been fixed and it still feels floaty.

I am not sure if I need new rubber or new suspension.

What do you recommend?

I am experiencing something similar to this. I recently had rear puncture and had to replace my OEM tire. Unfortunately, the tire shop only had a Dunlop SP Sport All-Season available and it was the cheapest one too so I had that one installed. Ever since then my car hasn't been the same. The difference is night and day. The handling feels sloppy, rougher, "floaty", and skittish. I definitely agree with you that I feel like I am constantly correcting the car while driving in the same lane. I have no doubt that it's the tire. I am not too worried because I plan on switching out the wheels/tires soon enough. I would look into that tire fix you did.

[DEnd]

Originally Posted by Acree

What's the verdict? Does it come down to bushings?

-Acree

There isn't a verdict. There are lots of possible causes, from a bad alignment (even though it may be "in spec"), to tire loading and wear, to tire pressure, to tire heat cycling issues, to worn componets, to road surfaces, to aerodynamic issues, to perception "issues" with the driver, and some I'm likely missing. Some of those are a lot more likely than others. The place to start for most people is the alignment, the actual first place to start is heat probe readings from the tires, after heating them up on a known course, but I don't expect most people to have those available to them. Probably a good intermediary first step between those two is checking the tire tread depth readings, but this is a rather late stage finding of alignment issues. However it can be an early enough finding to keep the tires somewhat useable. Also an even treadwear finding does not indicate that there is not an alignment issue, as accurately measurable treadwear may not have happened yet.

[DEnd]

Originally Posted by ap5512

I am experiencing something similar to this. I recently had rear puncture and had to replace my OEM tire. Unfortunately, the tire shop only had a Dunlop SP Sport All-Season available and it was the cheapest one too so I had that one installed. Ever since then my car hasn't been the same. The difference is night and day. The handling feels sloppy, rougher, "floaty", and skittish. I definitely agree with you that I feel like I am constantly correcting the car while driving in the same lane. I have no doubt that it's the tire. I am not too worried because I plan on switching out the wheels/tires soon enough. I would look into that tire fix you did.

You should never replace just one tire. I know sometimes it's too expensive to do two tires, but the differences between two tires (even of the same make and model, but different wear amounts) on the same end will lead to some weird handling quirks. Though in racing applications it may be of some use, it's generally not a good idea for street use.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by DEnd

There isn't a verdict. There are lots of possible causes, from a bad alignment (even though it may be "in spec"), to tire loading and wear, to tire pressure, to tire heat cycling issues, to worn componets, to road surfaces, to aerodynamic issues, to perception "issues" with the driver, and some I'm likely missing. Some of those are a lot more likely than others. The place to start for most people is the alignment, the actual first place to start is heat probe readings from the tires, after heating them up on a known course, but I don't expect most people to have those available to them. Probably a good intermediary first step between those two is checking the tire tread depth readings, but this is a rather late stage finding of alignment issues. However it can be an early enough finding to keep the tires somewhat useable. Also an even treadwear finding does not indicate that there is not an alignment issue, as accurately measurable treadwear may not have happened yet.

Alignment should always be the first place. Given these wimpy control arms and bushings though...

[DEnd]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Alignment should always be the first place. Given these wimpy control arms and bushings though...

For most people, and everyone in this thread asking about the problem I agree with you.

I was more trying to inform them that an alignment issue will first show up as feel and as tire heating, resulting in tire wear. Since those are the first indicators that's what you really look at first. Probably a bit off topic though as I was just trying to keep people from straight out saying oh my car has this "floaty" feeling I need new bushings (or whatever), without first figuring out if that is what their problem really is.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by DEnd

For most people, and everyone in this thread asking about the problem I agree with you.

I was more trying to inform them that an alignment issue will first show up as feel and as tire heating, resulting in tire wear. Since those are the first indicators that's what you really look at first. Probably a bit off topic though as I was just trying to keep people from straight out saying oh my car has this "floaty" feeling I need new bushings (or whatever), without first figuring out if that is what their problem really is.

That's the correct and proper advice.

I AM looking for excuses to upgrade though. We'll see how this floating feeling...feels... after I put my sticky tires on. My bet is the front feels more planted while the chassis as a whole wriggles more.

[Acree]

Originally Posted by DEnd

For most people, and everyone in this thread asking about the problem I agree with you.

I was more trying to inform them that an alignment issue will first show up as feel and as tire heating, resulting in tire wear. Since those are the first indicators that's what you really look at first. Probably a bit off topic though as I was just trying to keep people from straight out saying oh my car has this "floaty" feeling I need new bushings (or whatever), without first figuring out if that is what their problem really is.

I completely understand and agree with this. I just now put a deposit down on the solid steering rack bushings. Honestly, the floating feelings is just a thinly veiled excuse for me to do what I was wanting to do anyways.

As far as getting an alignment and checking the rack for slop, etc, I didn't do any of those things. The car has 2400 miles on it now, and I expect it to be in line from the factory. Once I get the bushings installed, I get a real alignment done.

-Acree

[Pete156]

Regarding 'floating feeling' - This car begs to be sprung differently. Done right with a good alignment, you'd swear the car was on rails. Makes all the difference in the world.

Factory control arm bushings are not wearing out in 5000 miles, unless you're Travis Pastrana

The wandering issue isn't due to SRB or tires, unless you're running different sizes on same axle. I don't trust factory alignments (which probably takes all of twelve seconds on the assembly line)

Advice is free. Some should take it.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Pete156

This car begs to be sprung differently. Done right with a good alignment, you'd swear the car was on rails. Makes all the difference in the world.

Factory control arm bushings are not wearing out in 5000 miles, unless you're Travis Pastrana

The wandering issue isn't due to SRB or tires, unless you're running different sizes on same axle. I don't trust factory alignments (which probably takes all of twelve seconds on the assembly line)

Advice is free. Some should take it.

All very true. But I wanted steering rack bushings anyway!

[DEnd]

Originally Posted by Acree

I completely understand and agree with this. I just now put a deposit down on the solid steering rack bushings. Honestly, the floating feelings is just a thinly veiled excuse for me to do what I was wanting to do anyways.

As far as getting an alignment and checking the rack for slop, etc, I didn't do any of those things. The car has 2400 miles on it now, and I expect it to be in line from the factory. Once I get the bushings installed, I get a real alignment done.

-Acree

I'm not saying that if you think a part is cool or will improve performance not to buy it. People can buy all the Diamond Encrusted Muffler Bearings they want for all I care. However most people don't really have thousands of dollars to throw at a car to chase down a problem, especially when its one that likely can be fixed by an $80 procedure that is about due to be done anyway. While the recommended alignment interval is something like every 7,500-10,000 miles, an alignment can be needed much sooner, even with normal street driving. Even just sitting the car can (though it is highly unlikely) go out of alignment just by the expansion and contraction of the metal. That said since you are planning on getting the solid steering rack bushings soon anyway, it's probably best to wait untill after they are installed to get the alignment done. Though I do still recommend you get a tire tread depth guage (they are like $10 or less) and keep an eye on your tire wear, as really it's just good practice.

[ApexEight]

Hello, instead of starting a new thread I searched and figured I'd bump this one since it's similar to what I'm experiencing.

I have a 2014 FR-S with Whiteline diff, trans, and subframe inserts, and the Perrin steering rack locks. On Toyo all-seasons in stock 215/45 sizing (they're something like 400TW).

I really like how the car handles now and I do NOT want to upset its balance from the factory, but when I push the car on backroads the rear seems a bit floaty/not planted to me and doesn't inspire much confidence. Yesterday on an on a lefty, slightly off-camber on-ramp, I was cornering steady into the turn and applied a touch more throttle mid-corner and the rear stepped out. I'm looking for a more planted feel.

I will be taking the car to my 3rd autocross next week (1st in this car).

I have the opportunity to trade my stock wheels and relatively new Toyos plus $275 for another set of stock wheels with relatively new Pilot Super Sports (225/45).

I'm thinking about running the autocross on the Toyos for now, but what should I be looking at to get a more planted feel?

There is a new Eibach Pro-Kit for sale locally for $175. Or should I do camber bolts up front and put them in the lower strut holes and then take the stock lower strut hole bolts and put them in the top holes? I'm thinking I can get ~-2 camber up front like this and dial in some toe out up front and some toe in out back.

Thoughts? Car is primarily a daily driver but I'm definitely looking to get out to more autocrosses and eventually get on track. Thanks!

[Gforce]

Fit a stiffer front anti roll bar before you try anything else. More front camber will make this situation worse.

There is a big improvement available by fitting a 20 mm front bar, up from the stock 18 mm.

A set of lowering springs would achieve a similar result because these sets move roll resistance from the rear to the front axle by the choice of spring rates.

The roll bar is cheaper and if you want to be able to play around there are adjustable 20 mm bars as well as 22 mm bars which have been found useful by other members.

For my money I'd fit these:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112859

I did. The difference is night and day.

If you still don't like that stepping out character (an intentional chassis design feature just btw, not everybody likes it) try fitting a set of softer 2017 model year rear springs. It may seem counterintuitive to solve this floaty feeling by fitting even softer springs, but, hey, that's why this suspension tuning topic generates such long, long threads.

Your issue is a rear axle that won't grip as well as it can be made to.

The price you have to pay is a less playful, more mature chassis that goes only where you point it.