Help me narrow my focus, car buying sub $20,000

[D4ng3r]

Hey guys! I am just tossing this out there to kill some time. Within the next year I'm going to be buying a car. My ideal price range is under $20,000.

Requirements:

Must be reliable
Decent fit/finish
Must have a good shift feel
Can't be a "boat"
Decent MPG
Sporty handling
At least some aftermarket support
200+ hp
Prefer sedan+coupe instead of hatchback.

FWD is acceptable if it nails every criteria (I'm looking at you, MazdaSpeed3 and GTI). RWD would be nice, AWD, sure.

I'm a tuner at heart, and as such this car will become my baby project. I expect to put about $3,000 into the car over its life (really though, I can't say 100% how much I'll spend!). I want it to be unique.


So, some cars I have looked at (keep in mind I'm Canadian):

GTI (newer the better? I have heard of expensive repair bills on older VWs).

A car that I would LOVE: 2012 Jetta GLI (it gets terrible reviews though! sadly!!! and at $27,000 its a bit much :S )

2007-8 Audi A4 (I would drop this on either coils or spring+shocks)

2007-8 BMW 328i (same as above)

2008-2010 SAAB 9-3 2.0T (Very inexpensive! would drop the car to increase handling. small aftermarket support, but I love the look.. thoughts on this car??)

2011+ Mustang v6 (...not a big ford guy, at all. Only the hard stats on this car make me even consider it, as it has a tremendous price/hp ratio)

2010+ WRX (my dream car. The most expensive option on my list. Heavy. )

2012 FR-S (I want a bit more practicality than this car offers, I'm not a die-hard enough to choose this over a WRX)

2011 Genesis Coupe (Not a huge fan of their "jack of all trades" feel, shifting feel is sloppy. Nice design).



So guys, there you have it. I would say the most interesting things I have on this list are the 328i BMW, and the SAAB 9-3. Does anyone have thoughts on the SAAB, good or bad? I can get a 2010 with 40,000km for $15,000 (210hp turbo, leather, sunroof). That sounds like a steal to me. Drop it on some agressive springs, and the "numb handling" argument gets less credit.

Thanks for your random musings, guys. Any thoughts or questions to help me focus are appreciated.

[Calum]

Pick up an 08 rex, and mod it. There's one in Toronto for under 12 grand, but it's got a ton of kms. Theres more on autotrader.ca.

[D4ng3r]

Originally Posted by Calum

Pick up an 08 rex, and mod it. There's one in Toronto for under 12 grand, but it's got a ton of kms. Theres more on autotrader.ca.

How are high-km subies? I know I would need a compression test before I would consider buying one... but do they hold up OK?

Also, I am really partial to the newer wide bodykits on the 2010+ wrx's.. would really have to find a screaming deal on a 2008 for me to jump ship! Good tip though, I'm gonna go browse.

Edit: Why the hell didn't I know that the 2008-2009 WRX models came in sedan version?! Haha I must be one of the most dense idiots out there... I've never seen one on the road before! In my searches, I can only find 2008 models hitting $19 grand, roughly.. nothing much cheaper except for a rebuild.

[blur]

I've driven the 2008 A4, very "meh" kind of car. Acura TL type S is my recommendation.

[Godzpeed]

SAAB? LOL... good luck find parts in a few years time. FYI they are extinct already.

I'd get an used Honda Fit and Turbo it to around 200HP with the budget you are offering.

Its around 1000kg, at 200HP, its not slower than a WRX. Not to mention its practical and actually really fun to drive due to its low weight. With a set of grippy tires and coilovers, the car grips like no tomorrow since there are hardly any stress on the tires. Shift feel is great on the 5MT fit and huge aftermarket support, and of course, this car is great on gas that only a Hybrid could beat.

tbh, I don't really know how much parts you could buy with just 3k... a set of decent rims and tires will cost around that much already. Might as well get something cheaper and mod.

and no, i'm not joking about the Fit. I do own a Fit thats turbo charged in China, and its far more fun than anything you listed other than the FR-S. I've also owned a Yaris RS thats supercharged before. Which is also great fun with a limited budget!

[Asterisked Accolade]

Porsche 944 Turbo.
Last-gen Mazda RX7.
1990-1998 Corvette.

[Godzpeed]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Why would anyone buy a POS like the Fit or Yaris, with plans to do FI? They are both shitty platforms for anything. At that point, why wouldn't you just go buy a 2,000 dollar civic and spend another 3k on it and have a 300-400whp car.

I guess either you are in high school or never really had a chance to play with one of those cars. Otherwise you'd not call those cars POS. Just because they are cheap it doesn't mean they are poorly built.

These cars, especially the 2nd generation and up have a very capable chassis that are actually far more rigid than a lot of so call sports cars on the market.
With proper suspension tuning and tires, these cars are actually very fun to drive with minimal weight.

The L15A engine is quite tunable, while the 1NZFE in the Yaris is a bit lacking. but both with a lightweight fly wheel and force inducted, they are quite a hot hatch.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Why would anyone buy a POS like the Fit or Yaris, with plans to do FI? They are both shitty platforms for anything. At that point, why wouldn't you just go buy a 2,000 dollar civic and spend another 3k on it and have a 300-400whp car.

Actually, I know a guy who turboed his newer-model Yaris, put a good suspension on it, and it runs great at auto-x. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by D4ng3r

How are high-km subies? I know I would need a compression test before I would consider buying one... but do they hold up OK?

Also, I am really partial to the newer wide bodykits on the 2010+ wrx's.. would really have to find a screaming deal on a 2008 for me to jump ship! Good tip though, I'm gonna go browse.

Edit: Why the hell didn't I know that the 2008-2009 WRX models came in sedan version?! Haha I must be one of the most dense idiots out there... I've never seen one on the road before! In my searches, I can only find 2008 models hitting $19 grand, roughly.. nothing much cheaper except for a rebuild.

I searched autotrader.ca for all rex's in Ontario, it gave me one in Qc as well. They ranged from ~12g to 21g. Subie's are generally considered to last a LONG time mechanically. Fit and finish is usually lacking compared to some brands but ymmv.

You should also know that the 08's had less power, softer suspension and possibly a smaller turbo. I don't know all the dirty details, but as far as i know the major components were the same, just some tuning to make the 09's a little more hard edged. Because of this the 08's should be cheaper, but if you're modding it anyway, the differences shouldn't matter.

[D4ng3r]

Originally Posted by Calum

I searched autotrader.ca for all rex's in Ontario, it gave me one in Qc as well. They ranged from ~12g to 21g. Subie's are generally considered to last a LONG time mechanically. Fit and finish is usually lacking compared to some brands but ymmv.

You should also know that the 08's had less power, softer suspension and possibly a smaller turbo. I don't know all the dirty details, but as far as i know the major components were the same, just some tuning to make the 09's a little more hard edged. Because of this the 08's should be cheaper, but if you're modding it anyway, the differences shouldn't matter.

I know that in 2008 there were 2 models, the 225hp, and then the 265hp model. I would be buying the 265hp (has better fuel econ, if you can believe it) and the larger mitsubishi turbo.

[n2oinferno]

If you love the new GLI, why not a MKV? Unless you just don't like the styling, it's a better car, IMO. Doesn't have that watered-down feeling that the new "Americanized" VWs have. I'd just advise on an 08+ with the TSI engine instead of the FSI. Keep in mind you'll have to clean the engine out every once in a while, since the DI leaves a lot of carbon buildup on the valve train.

But if your true dream is the WRX, get one. It's by no means an unattainable dream.

[D4ng3r]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Unless you just don't like the styling, it's a better car, IMO. Doesn't have that watered-down feeling that the new "Americanized" VWs have. I'd just advise on an 08+ with the TSI engine instead of the FSI. Keep in mind you'll have to clean the engine out every once in a while, since the DI leaves a lot of carbon buildup on the valve train.

But if your true dream is the WRX, get one. It's by no means an unattainable dream.

Thank you so much for your input. I looked into the MKVs as you suggested, and I just can't quite swallow the handling. I do agree... American made cars are getting too soft!

I think at this point, I'm considering the WRX. Now I just need to determine if I want:

1. a 2009 WRX with low KMs
2. spend the money on a 2011 WRX, which I like the design of better (but it is at least $5,000-$7,000 more expensive)
3. wait until the next WRX is announced to see if it will be bucket-loads better, and buy a POS beater until then to save money. This also might let me pick up an older WRX for less at that point (maybe a year from now?)
4. ?

[bestwheelbase]

Can you get a decent E46 M3 for under $20k?

[GenkiElite]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Why would anyone buy a POS like the Fit or Yaris, with plans to do FI? They are both shitty platforms for anything. At that point, why wouldn't you just go buy a 2,000 dollar civic and spend another 3k on it and have a 300-400whp car.

Because 40mpg. That's what my girlfriend's 07 5 speed Yaris gets. Oh and it's dead reliable as well as fun to drive. Grow up kid.