Questions about shifting in a manual

[Drakelee117]

I've been working on my driving since the day I got my first manual car. I am fine at most part but shifting down has always been something that messes me up. At first I would have terrible shift lock whenever I do a down shift. Say I am doing 70mph on a highway in 6th, I saw my exit and get on the exit lane. I break to around 50mph, put my feet on the clutch, shift to 5th, put on gas while letting go of the clutch. But it seems like whenever I put on too little gas too late, the tires lock up; whenever I put on too much gas too early, the car just pushes forward. So what is the suitable timing to put on gas when shifting down to get a smoother ride? I've done the proper way a couple of times and it was really smooth and all, but I am not sure how did I do it exactly.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by Drakelee117

I've been working on my driving since the day I got my first manual car. I am fine at most part but shifting down has always been something that messes me up. At first I would have terrible shift lock whenever I do a down shift. Say I am doing 70mph on a highway in 6th, I saw my exit and get on the exit lane. I break to around 50mph, put my feet on the clutch, shift to 5th, put on gas while letting go of the clutch. But it seems like whenever I put on too little gas too late, the tires lock up; whenever I put on too much gas too early, the car just pushes forward. So what is the suitable timing to put on gas when shifting down to get a smoother ride? I've done the proper way a couple of times and it was really smooth and all, but I am not sure how did I do it exactly.

Sounds like you're on either side of perfect, too much or too little. Just keep practicing and you'll eventually start to feel it out. It's impossible to prescribe the exact amount of foot travel needed to rev match a downshift, its just something you learn.

Next time you're out driving (without much traffic around) practice shifting between gears. For a given rpm in a given gear, (say 50mph in 6th per your scenario) you can downshift and maintain the same road speed to see the rpm difference between two gears. The higher the rpm, the greater the difference will be, but the engine will respond to throttle input more quickly.

As you practice, your legs and feet will develop muscle memory and it will be more easily repeatable, and eventually you won't need to think about anything, it will just happen.

[Darnold]

Originally Posted by Drakelee117

I've been working on my driving since the day I got my first manual car. I am fine at most part but shifting down has always been something that messes me up. At first I would have terrible shift lock whenever I do a down shift. Say I am doing 70mph on a highway in 6th, I saw my exit and get on the exit lane. I break to around 50mph, put my feet on the clutch, shift to 5th, put on gas while letting go of the clutch. But it seems like whenever I put on too little gas too late, the tires lock up; whenever I put on too much gas too early, the car just pushes forward. So what is the suitable timing to put on gas when shifting down to get a smoother ride? I've done the proper way a couple of times and it was really smooth and all, but I am not sure how did I do it exactly.

It can take a while when not experienced but it does get easier.

What you are looking to do is properly rev match the car and it sounds like you are almost there on your own.

Read this article in full and look into picking up a book on driving theory if you want to practice good habits.

http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/rev-matching.htm

Eventually it gets smoother and smoother and you will brake/blip/shift all at once!

[andrew5826]

its not about timing, its about how close you can rev match to match the speed of the transmission to the wheels. you shouldnt really be giving gas while letting the clutch out, it should be a quick blip to the desired rpms, off the gas, and clutch out. once you get used to it, it will be one fluid motion. when you let the clutch out, pay attention to the tach and how much it moves. if you can rev match to where the needle just snaps into place, you'll have smoother downshifts

[wheelhaus]

And this is why good drivers are so far and few between. This stuff takes a lot of time and practice to learn properly. There's a lot of hot shots out there that think they're King Shit out on the road with one hand at 12'oclock, but learning proper techniques pays off. Stick with it!

[Darnold]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

And this is why good drivers are so far and few between. This stuff takes a lot of time and practice to learn properly. There's a lot of hot shots out there that think they're King Shit out on the road with one hand at 12'oclock, but learning proper techniques pays off. Stick with it!

Doesn't really take all that long, just requires you to practice on every downshift/upshift/turn/light/etc/etc/etc We have more opportunities to practice than people generally understand.

Before OP knows it he will be learning about the string method and applying heel toe to down shift

[Tgionet]

I learned how to drive a manual car completely via iRacing and rFactor. I was able to heel and toe proficiently before I ever actually drove a manual car. Sims are a great way to learn and a good wheel+pedal setup (you want pedals with a load cell brake) costs about as much as a new clutch.

[Akari]

As others have said sounds like you're on either side and just need more practice.

Once you have it 100% perfect you can actually upshift and downshift without using the clutch at all(just you really, really don't want to fuck this up). I used to do that during casual driving in my STi quite a bit.

[Poodles]

Heel-toe is a nice skill to have, but not everyone is very good at it. I don't do it at all because it's very uncomfortable to do, so I tend to let the clutch out slower.

Before I get jumped on for this, this is how 99% of drivers are taught. Finesse with your left foot is nice for being able to take off on a hill, or simply sitting on a hill with clutch and gas.

Maybe if I get one of those extended pedals I'll get used to it, but I can't heel-toe the way other people do without twisting myself in the seat...

[tYtEn86]

Ive been driving stick shift for a long time but one thing Im unsure on and so many people tell me different things, is it safe to down shift/ engine brake into 1st gear?

[stonenewt]

For normal driving I don't bother to rev match properly. The way we're taught to change gear is lift off the throttle, dip the clutch, change gear & then progressively feed in the throttle as I feed out the clutch. As long as you do this in a slowish smooth manner, adjust with the throttle of the engine is trying to change the car's speed you should always have smooth transitions. To do the throttle, clutch swap obviously you need to block out your braking & changing or master heal & toeing.

In the UK we have Roadar, their system of driving mandates a braking phase. A gear change phase then a manoeuvring phase. If you're say going from 70mph down to 20mph you'd brake all the way to 20mph but dip the clutch when the engine gets to around idling speed. Only when you've finished the braking phase would you engage the appropriate gear. Again smoothly feeding the clutch out & the throttle in along with feeling for miss-matches with the throttle will produce a smooth shift. Certainly not the fastest way to drive but once mastered it's the smoothest.

If you are going to brake & shift at the same time proper rev-matching is the way to go with a blip of the throttle when in neutral but this is more likely to miss leading to what you're describing.

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by tYtEn86

Ive been driving stick shift for a long time but one thing Im unsure on and so many people tell me different things, is it safe to down shift/ engine brake into 1st gear?

As long as you match revs you should be fine going into first gear as long as you're not forcing it. You do need something like 80% more engine speed in first so it's a huge blip and kind of a pain with how unresponsive the drive by wire throttle is.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by tYtEn86

Ive been driving stick shift for a long time but one thing Im unsure on and so many people tell me different things, is it safe to down shift/ engine brake into 1st gear?

It is absolutely perfectly fine. As Tgionet mentioned, there's a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd, do downshifting requires a bigger blip.

One reason I can justify recommending against it, is when at high rpm, the synchros have to work really hard to spin up the input shaft during a downshift. The larger gap to 1st means it's a little harder on the 1st gear synchro than other gears.

Double clutching is a way to rev match a downshift without the need for synchros, so it is an effective way to downshift into any gear at any rpm.

[aznatama]

So you leave it in gear while BRAKING right? then it should'nt be too difficult to rev match the lazy double-clutch-downshift way.

The only way you chirp the tires is if you just let out the clutch all the way immediately. Don't do this. feather it slightly.

Aside from the above, heel toe downshift allows you to brake while downshifting. Something you can learn after you figure out how to downshift properly.

It all just takes time and practice. Seeing some box vids of people who shift well doesn't hurt either.