Subaru... what's so good about them?

[hmong337]

Not trolling here... I'm from the Toyota camp and been a Toyota guy my entire life.

Seriously though, other than WRC what's so good about Subaru? To me, F1 and FIA GT1 are the pinnicle of racing and manufacturers entering are definitely in the elite. What has Subaru proved outside of WRC? All I can dig up is their failed attempt in F1 decades back. Meanwhile, Toyota has had their hands in everything from WRC, F1, and FIA GT1. Albeit, not taking any first place trophies and Toyota is deemed to be the most losing Auto company in racing. But at least they're out there developing and racing at the top tier.

Subaru..? I can't seem to find any history outside of WRC. And if they're not competing in top class, what makes them so good at a racing stand point? Sure they have had a few gt300 SuperGT cars, but no F1? No FIA?

I'm still on the fence why Subaru should be taken seriously. Whereas Toyota has developed screaming v10's put into F1 cars and hybrid power trains fitted to their TS030 to battle with Audi's at the 24h of Me Mans, where is Subaru?

[Burrcold]

Why they should be taken seriously? Because they are a leader in the thing that they do best a company (WRC). Why is that not enough? They have always been a niche brand and built on their quirky (as many thought 20 years ago) AWD line-up. Something that was not mainstream unless you were looking at unreliable luxury in Audi.


This completely changed the rest of the automotive industry. They are the reason AWD is in almost ever automakers line-up.


That's why we should take them seriously.

[hmong337]

Valid.

I guess what I'm after is... Why no screaming flat12 or flat10 in a LMP chassis? Why no road racing?

Toyota also did WRC... They cheated though lol.

[ayau]

Just because a company doesn't participate in F1 doesn't mean they're a crap company. Porsche doesn't participate in F1, does that make them a crappy car maker?

I'd imagine it takes a TON of funds to enter in F1. The barrier of entry doesn't seem to be easy.

How many Toyota parts were actually in the F1 car? I believe there are only a handful F1 engine makers, e.g., Renault, Ferrari, Mercedes. It appears to me the only thing Toyota was involved in was providing the funds to the team.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Valid.

I guess what I'm after is... Why no screaming flat12 or flat10 in a LMP chassis? Why no road racing?

Toyota also did WRC... They cheated though lol.

It's not their forte, plain and simple. They would rather use their R&D money on developing a better rally car, that will eventually trickle down to building a better Outback, Forester, Impreza (the cars that keep the Subaru ship afloat). And they get the added benefit of using this technology on cars like the WRX and STi.


How the BRZ fits in to all of this? Well it doesn't really, other than to give a little pizzazz when buyers enter the show room.

[AVodka14]

Because their rally cars are bad ass! Toyota's niche is different such as NASCAR, BAJA, and GT series racing. Combining the technology of Subaru's bad ass rally cars with the likes of the timeless MKIV Toyota Supra would dominate all IMHO :-)

[s2d4]

Can't drive like a tank through snow, elitism toyota fanboy can't take subaru seriously, drives a car built by subaru.

Sell your car already.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by ayau

Just because a company doesn't participate in F1 doesn't mean they're a crap company. Porsche doesn't participate in F1, does that make them a crappy car maker?

I'd imagine it takes a TON of funds to enter in F1. The barrier of entry doesn't seem to be easy.

How many Toyota parts were actually in the F1 car? I believe there are only a handful F1 engine makers, e.g., Renault, Ferrari, Mercedes. It appears to me the only thing Toyota was involved in was providing the funds to the team.

Actually no, Toyota raced competitively in F1 and supplied engines to various teams there after.

I'm not saying Subaru is crappy. Far from it so don't spin my words. Just trying to validate why Subaru should be taken seriously in the racing arena outside of WRC. And as far as I'm concerned, it's not rocket science to build a WRC engine compared to an F1 engine.

[Superhatch]

Subaru competes in the GT300 series on a regular basis with a wide variety of cars. Since they have not made a high power sports coupe the GT500 series would be out of the range of their high power production cars (Sti/Wrx).

To say that they don't compete in road racing just means you don't know much about the touring car world. These cars are known quite well in that world.

They are a company that is 1/10 the size of Toyota...why aren't they competing in F1? lulz.

Also, Toyota did pretty poorly in F1. Their stint was less than memorable. I think they made the podium a handful of times in the 7 years they were there, and dumped TONS of money into the program with little to show for it in the end.

Toyota does have a hand in lots of racing events all over the world, on par with Honda, but to use Toyota's racing history as a marker to compare a much smaller company seems like a flawed comparison from the start. It's borderline trolling.

[hmong337]

@Superhatch

Yes, I followed all those gt300 cars. And you're right about Toyota being a giant over Subaru. And if you actually read my post, I'm not claiming Toyota to be any good with their racing endevourers. They're possibly the most losing company in racing. But at least they're out there racing and developing. Just curious with Subaru's "superior" engine design, why aren't they developing to a higher tier. That's all. Could be cost of entry? Maybe? Lack of interest? Maybe?

I'm not looking to step on you Subaru fanboys. Just wanted your thoughts and discussion on Subaru and racing and developing outside of WRC.

[bobaab]

Don't you think developing a car in stable/consistent conditions is a bit easier than developing a car for ever changing road conditions? That's what I always say. Sure going fast is hard, but going fast in a car that can handle many different situations is another monster.

Btw, I owned a 2nd gen MR2 for quite a few years...I miss it!!

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

Subaru competes in the GT300 series on a regular basis with a wide variety of cars. Since they have not made a high power sports coupe the GT500 series would be out of the range of their high power production cars (Sti/Wrx).

To say that they don't compete in road racing just means you don't know much about the touring car world. These cars are known quite well in that world.

They are a company that is 1/10 the size of Toyota...why aren't they competing in F1? lulz.

Also, Toyota did pretty poorly in F1. Their stint was less than memorable. I think they made the podium a handful of times in the 7 years they were there, and dumped TONS of money into the program with little to show for it in the end.

Toyota does have a hand in lots of racing events all over the world, on par with Honda, but to use Toyota's racing history as a marker to compare a much smaller company seems like a flawed comparison from the start. It's borderline trolling.

Pretty much nailed it. Which is why Toyota went please make this car for us Subaru!!! Actually more like.. We majority shareholder bbeeeches go make our car now!!

Why no flat 10 12? Because WRC 300 HP limit and also a big boxer is something Porsche can only away with in line up n financially (even then they never did for public) and lastly Subaru is not American muscle that goes in straight line

Subaru's vision is to pour all their expertise into AWD and Boxer. That's like a the design criteria. They attempted F1 decades ago and it bombed because they hired the Alfa Romero chief engineer to build an engine for them. The Motori-Moderni flat 12 bombed n subaru didn't qualify.

There really is no pinnacle of racing in f1. Its like evolution and design engineering. You can only hire a group of engineers to make something optimized for a specific environment or specification.

And the flawed logic is that the expert vehicle dynamics engineers from subaru cant make a great RWD drive car..well enter the FT86.

There really was no reason for them to develop the FT86 other than Toyota owning like 15% of the company.

And unless you even fathomed about owning AWD car, most ppl don't think of Subaru until mainstream public start see turbo charged Subies here n there and go "what was that? Looked pretty cool"

[CoupedUpSubie]

Unless you are competing in small time racing series it takes a lot to build a competitive engine for any series. Also the engines in a WRC car get a royal beating from going airborne and then the car coming back down and loading up the engine. F1 engines typically have to endure high revs. Subaru also no longer competes in WRC as they don't make a 1.6 liter engine. They do RallyAmerica.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by bobaab

Don't you think developing a car in stable/consistent conditions is a bit easier than developing a car for ever changing road conditions? That's what I always say. Sure going fast is hard, but going fast in a car that can handle many different situations is another monster.

Btw, I owned a 2nd gen MR2 for quite a few years...I miss it!!

You're right! Now we have the brz... Clearly a road race tarmac car. Odd in the Subaru line up.