A worry I have; Is it too good?

[Draco-REX]

I can hear those pilot lights being ignited now!


But here's where I worry about my personal enjoyment of this car.

This car has been about driving FUN from the start. It's not about being fast on paper. It's about that joy you get when you and your car are communicating and you have only the road ahead of you twisting off into the distance.

When I think of that, as with most humans, I think about past cars to draw my expectations from. One of which that the above description reminds me of is this car:


A 1987 Toyota Corolla Deluxe.

It had 70hp, weighed a hair over 2000lbs, had an open rear diff, and no power accessories whatsoever. The shifter had over a foot of throw, the suspension bushings were all loose, the shocks were probably as old as the car, and it had spaghetti for sway bars (bar?). It lacked certain things that I expect in a car these days. Like heat, and the ability to maintain 70mph up a hill. I bought it in 2004 for $900, sold it in 2008 for a pizza, then bought it back for a (better) pizza in 2009, and finally traded it in on my spec.B for $2000 in 2010.

It was slow. So slow that the only way to get it to merge onto highways at today's speeds was to treat the on-ramp like a corner on a track and make sure I hit the entry, apex, and exit. And then pray that I could find a gap big enough to merge into. But despite the one-wheel peels, boat-like handling, responsiveness of a drunken cow, and the fact that driving it 9/10ths was an exercise, it was freakishly FUN to drive. I could drive it like crazy, hitting redline in every gear and STILL be within legal speed limits. It was an amusement park ride that only cost gas to ride.

And that level of fun is what I'm looking forward to in the BRZ.

But here's my worry, will the BRZ lose some of that fun by being a good car? It'll have nearly 3 times the horsepower, and every modern-day luxury will be at my fingertips. Not to mention a suspension that actually works!

So how much of the fun did I experience in that beat-up rustbucket of an AE86 was due to the absurdity of it? And how much was due to the fact that in spite of it's failings, I could place my inside tires within an inch of where I wanted and that it would do whatever I asked of it (besides passing at 80mph uphill)? Will the BRZ's handling make me feel like I have to hold back all the time like when I'm driving my STI? Will the power make sprints to cruising speed too easy?

Is the car just too good to recapture the essence of those old fun-to-drive cars from our past?

It makes me wonder. (Though I'm not cancelling my order by any means. )

[Turbowned]

I think it will offer a distilled version of that fun without all the bad parts, like creaking doors, rattles, random part failures and dirty looks from your neighbors and your significant other's parents. This is the principal reason I am adding the BRZ to the stable alongside my MR2. The MR2 has served me well for 4 years; I bought it for $700, and have put about $12,000 into making it faster and more reliable (just let that soak in). I've done a pretty good job making it quicker, more reliable, and more rewarding to drive, but I still want a car that doesn't creak, squeak, and rattle all the time, isn't deafening inside the cabin (2.5" exhaust on an N/A was a poor choice), doesn't burn or leak fluids, and that has nice new shiny paint. I think I'll keep the MR2 around because it's nice to have a beater that you can drive at the limit on the track and not worry too much about scratching up if you overshoot an apex and end up in the weeds or a tire barrier. But what I'm really looking forward to is having a new, fun, reliable car that looks great and gets thumbs up instead of sneers and laughs

[SUB-FT86]

That was a fun read.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I think it will offer a distilled version of that fun without all the bad parts, like creaking doors, rattles, random part failures and dirty looks from your neighbors and your significant other's parents. This is the principal reason I am adding the BRZ to the stable alongside my MR2. The MR2 has served me well for 4 years; I bought it for $700, and have put about $12,000 into making it faster and more reliable (just let that soak in). I've done a pretty good job making it quicker, more reliable, and more rewarding to drive, but I still want a car that doesn't creak, squeak, and rattle all the time, isn't deafening inside the cabin (2.5" exhaust on an N/A was a poor choice), doesn't burn or leak fluids, and that has nice new shiny paint. I think I'll keep the MR2 around because it's nice to have a beater that you can drive at the limit on the track and not worry too much about scratching up if you overshoot an apex and end up in the weeds or a tire barrier. But what I'm really looking forward to is having a new, fun, reliable car that looks great and gets thumbs up instead of sneers and laughs

I had a 2.5 inch exhaust on my neon, with a glass pack as a resonator, no cat, and an RV muffler. It sounded almost like stock at idle. Under load it was certainly louder then stock, but still pleasing both inside and outside the car. You might want to experiment a little with the setup.

Op, something tells me you'll never get that feeling back. Even with the same car. This is the bad part of growing up. Having kids helps, but somehow I doubt I'll ever enjoy a 14 second 1/4 mile or the near 1g on ramps as much
as I did in that neon. It put down a whooping 138 whp, it didn't have ps with a 16:1 rack, and the engine mounts and suspension were so stiff that a four hour drive was awful and I still loved it.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Calum

I had a 2.5 inch exhaust on my neon, with a glass pack as a resonator, no cat, and an RV muffler. It sounded almost like stock at idle. Under load it was certainly louder then stock, but still pleasing both inside and outside the car. You might want to experiment a little with the setup.

Mid-engine car. I don't have that much room to work with! I'm also using a basically straight-through muffler, race cat, and 2.5" mandrel-bent piping so it's got almost zero restriction.

Back on topic, Draco's Corolla sounds exactly like all the Corollas I've driven, lol. Here's the one I bought and drove 20mins. before the engine threw a rod:

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That was a fun read.

Good. I like to be entertaining.

Originally Posted by Calum

I had a 2.5 inch exhaust on my neon, with a glass pack as a resonator, no cat, and an RV muffler. It sounded almost like stock at idle. Under load it was certainly louder then stock, but still pleasing both inside and outside the car. You might want to experiment a little with the setup.

Op, something tells me you'll never get that feeling back. Even with the same car. This is the bad part of growing up. Having kids helps, but somehow I doubt I'll ever enjoy a 14 second 1/4 mile or the near 1g on ramps as much
as I did in that neon. It put down a whooping 138 whp, it didn't have ps with a 16:1 rack, and the engine mounts and suspension were so stiff that a four hour drive was awful and I still loved it.

I know, because the absurdity was still a big factor of my love for that car. Nothing like chirping THIRD in that little thing. It just made me laugh.

I'm thinking the BRZ is going to remind me more of my STI than my Corolla. It's not a bad thing; actually that's impressive. But I will miss the insanity. I just can't see getting into another car like the corolla. For all the fun, it was too impractical on today's highways.

The BRZ will have its own form of fun.

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Mid-engine car. I don't have that much room to work with! I'm also using a basically straight-through muffler, race cat, and 2.5" mandrel-bent piping so it's got almost zero restriction.

Back on topic, Draco's Corolla sounds exactly like all the Corollas I've driven, lol. Here's the one I bought and drove 20mins. before the engine threw a rod:

That color! >.< Makes my eyes nauseous.

The BRZ will be a replacement for my Legacy spec.B. I originally got the spec because I thought I wanted a comfortable car that was also fun. But I've since found that what I really want is a fun car that's also comfortable. So the BRZ should slot in nicely.

My friends will just have to put up with less comfort than me when I cram them in the back.

[whitejdm]

This entire discussion is the reason I've ordered a BRZ. My first cars were Hondas (had a DC5 type S and then a DC2 Type R) and I LOVED driving them. As I grew up and moved on to BMWs I've found I just haven't enjoyed owning them as much, they are AMAZING cars (my Z4 M coupe was by far the best car I've owned) but I never find myself really DRIVING them on the street in a way that makes me smile. To put it simply, their limits are too high and they can carry FAR too much speed through corners without being unsettled. My little brother recently picked up a Mk6 GTI and I couldn't believe how much fun I was having ripping around in it!!

When it comes to the "numbers" I was honestly concerned at first, but I've come to the realization I drive for myself and not to impress or race others. If I can get back a little of my passion for under 30k I can't wait.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

That color! >.< Makes my eyes nauseous.

I know! Gold like a brick. I actually stripped all the paint off and primered it. It went to a new owner a few weeks ago - he's got like 4 AE86's so I'm sure it'll get put to use!

Originally Posted by whitejdm

This entire discussion is the reason I've ordered a BRZ. My first cars were Hondas (had a DC5 type S and then a DC2 Type R) and I LOVED driving them. As I grew up and moved on to BMWs I've found I just haven't enjoyed owning them as much, they are AMAZING cars (my Z4 M coupe was by far the best car I've owned) but I never find myself really DRIVING them on the street in a way that makes me smile. To put it simply, their limits are too high and they can carry FAR too much speed through corners without being unsettled. My little brother recently picked up a Mk6 GTI and I couldn't believe how much fun I was having ripping around in it!!

When it comes to the "numbers" I was honestly concerned at first, but I've come to the realization I drive for myself and not to impress or race others. If I can get back a little of my passion for under 30k I can't wait.

THIS. I'm finding I have the same "problem" in the S4. Good gawd, is it the nicest car I've ever driven! (And I've driven some damn nice cars!) But at 100mph it feels like I'm doing 40mph, and there's just so much grip it's impossible to come close to the car's limits. It's the best all-arounder I could ask for, but it does lack some of the thrill that my MR2 offered me with it's light weight, peaky powerband, and heavy, high-feedback steering. I think the BRZ will strike the perfect balance between absurd fun, and comfort/refinement. I hope it will be like my E30 BMW 325i. Light, quick, solid, and eventually, iconic

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I know! Gold like a brick. I actually stripped all the paint off and primered it. It went to a new owner a few weeks ago - he's got like 4 AE86's so I'm sure it'll get put to use!

On my netbook at work under the fluorescent lights, it looked like some kind of hideous green/gold color.

[dsgerbc]

Fact of life: generally people think that the things they owned/did while they were younger were much more fun. Soooo, don't expect the same level of excitement.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Fact of life: generally people think that the things they owned/did while they were younger were much more fun. Soooo, don't expect the same level of excitement.

Probably because in a lot of cases the things we owned earlier in life were more about passion than practicality.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Probably because in a lot of cases the things we owned earlier in life were more about passion than practicality.

and when it came to cars you pretty much had to drive it to get to places.

Nowadays you have so much electronannies that you pretty much drive a car with it holding your hand.

-Traction control is there when you cant launch properly (hey genius less throttle power or higher gear start)
-Stability control is there when you cant turn properly (hey genius dont take a turn so damn fast when your car isnt properly equipped to do so)
-ABS is there when you cant brake properly (hey genius pumping the brakes does the same thing)
-Air bags for when you cant drive properly (hey genius follow the rules of the road!)
-Blind spot monitoring for when you cant change lanes properly (hey genius its called shoulder checking)
-backup camera for when you cant park properly (hey genius use your mirrors and look out for your surroundings)


and so on and so on.

Same thing going on in the video game industry and movie industry. Movies are just hijacking and ruining classic franchises, books and sequals, and the video game industry has gotten so shallow that every game is practically a sequal or the same game with different packaging. Music too....

Man the current generation is retarded......(sorry if i offend)
And im not even an elder.....

[dsgerbc]

Yeah, the grass was also greener and tastier in the past for some random "logical" reason. Or maybe, just maybe, younger folks are just easier to excite or, alternatively, younger body is better at encoding emotions into memories, or both.

[tree fingers]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

and when it came to cars you pretty much had to drive it to get to places.

Nowadays you have so much electronannies that you pretty much drive a car with it holding your hand.

-Traction control is there when you cant launch properly (hey genius less throttle power or higher gear start)
-Stability control is there when you cant turn properly (hey genius dont take a turn so damn fast when your car isnt properly equipped to do so)
-ABS is there when you cant brake properly (hey genius pumping the brakes does the same thing)
-Air bags for when you cant drive properly (hey genius follow the rules of the road!)
-Blind spot monitoring for when you cant change lanes properly (hey genius its called shoulder checking)
-backup camera for when you cant park properly (hey genius use your mirrors and look out for your surroundings)


and so on and so on.

Same thing going on in the video game industry and movie industry. Movies are just hijacking and ruining classic franchises, books and sequals, and the video game industry has gotten so shallow that every game is practically a sequal or the same game with different packaging. Music too....

Man the current generation is retarded......(sorry if i offend)
And im not even an elder.....

Air bags for when you can't drive properly? How about, "Airbags for when a drunk asshole hits you, so that maybe you don't die".

Otherwise, I tend to agree with you. There are too many driving aids on newer cars, but is it making the current generation "retarded"? I'm not so sure. There are a million other things of greater causal power that affect "the current generation[being] retarded" than simply cars that are easy to drive.