Cars economics vs other hobbies and passions?

[RaceR]

Do not know if this is the case in the US, but being a petrolhead in Norway and several other countries is expensive!

I love cars, but sometimes I envy people with simple and cheap hobbies/passions. Most days I just envy US car enthusiasts with their ridiculous low prices.. (time on this forum does not help with that)

Normal people here can spend 25-40.000 USD on a simple and brand new "cheap" car boring car. They will be happy with their car! I would not be happy with their car.

A car enthusiast wanting to buy a GT86 have to spend 78.000 USD to be pleased with a new car. Price of GT86 here.
(ofcourse I/WE car enthusiasts can buy used, and most of us do. But same goes for all the other people wanting normal boring cars. Ill compare new against new here)

Lets say, a normal person could save 40.000 USD if not being a car enthusiast over a period of say 10 years. And now I am talking about a "cheap affordable sportscar". It is much worse for people who are into M3s and stuff!
I know of people who are more dedicated to new electronic gadgets, movies and home cinema, sports, photography, riding, mountain trips, traveling, RC-stuff, gaming, house renovating, gardening, partying, getting drunk.. etc etc... That stuff is way cheaper on a yearly basis. And most car people like me love to do some of the other stuff mentioned above.
Being a petrolhead is expensive!

I know motorcross is a very expensive hobby. Having a car for bike and equipment, and a bike to maintain ++. Motorsport in general is expensive. Being into cars cost a lot of money... I have a hard time finding other hobbies/passions that easily cost more.

What are your toughts about it?
Does petrolheads have to make more compromises to afford their hobby and passion compared to most people?

[Guff]

Here in America, we can trawl craigslist and find tons of cheap project cars that we can work on to our hearts delight! We are truly very lucky.

But cars in general are more expensive than say, Cameras or perhaps Tennis equipment. So, no matter what, if cars are your hobby, you're gonna be paying a pretty penny to get all of your projects in order. Being in Norway is that but 3X worse, lol.


My brother and I built a Supra last year. Total cost: about $19k including the car. It was a 94 6-spd SP67mm and we made 450ish HP at the end. It was a damn fun project and we had a great car at the end of it. A similar project in Norway might run you twice that amount though. So, I guess you have it tough....

[merlin2111]

It is all relative. I have multiple hobbies and car modification and ownership while expensive is the only one that I get to enjoy everyday. How many other hobbies do you get to do to and from work and on the weekends?

Also if you are hardcore into anything it gets expensive. Gaming is supposedly not expensive but it can get pricey also.

Videogames:
$500 x 2-3 Systems
$50 x ??? Controllers
$600 Wheel/Pedal Set
$60 x ??? per game
$3-4k Big TV/Projector
$5-8k Great surround sound

[serialk11r]

The bad part about cars I guess is that maintenance/depreciation are particularly bad, and cars chew through expensive consumables fast, and everything costs a lot in the first place.

Hobbies that don't involve constantly buying stuff are certainly going to be cheaper usually, they just have upfront cost and that's more or less it.

I used to be into computer stuff. The people who are serious about that spend half their paycheck on rent/food, and the other half on upgrades/games. When I sold off some parts a bunch of the prospective buyers were like "I'm interested, but can we wait until Monday when I get my paycheck?" Keeping up with the latest and greatest however "only" amounts to buying 1 high end system a year, which will run you like 3000 dollars.

[Jokerz]

I get a lot of heat from family and friends about my interest in cars but hey, my interest is what pays my bills as well! The one thing that really hurts about this hobby is the depreciation, that and the fact that when you mod most cars you further decrease it's value so any adventure into this hobby your probably going to get the short end cost wise.

For me it's just a pride thing. That is how I rationalize my expenses on stuff I don't really need for my car. I know it's kinda crazy but I bond with my car, I mean I spend a good majority of time in it. So I want to take care of it, want to make it more comfortable, faster, sharper, ect. And it helps that everytime I get out of my car I look back at it and smile, knowing that I put a part of me into this car

[Capt Canuck]

It is a question I think everyone here has resigned themselves to answering 'meh'... generally speaking ;-)

Buy a 2/3 yr old car coming off of a lease drive it for 10 yrs and then trade it in and get another one. Apart from buying junkers, that might be the best way to mitigate motoring expenses, but where is the fun?

We all know this is just pissing away money that could be spent elsewhere, but I think we're ok/ok-ish with that. Assuming we can shoehorn our other interests and responsibilities into the same overall budget.

As long as I can still travel, drink brown beer, and have nice meals out with the laydees, I will fund my car interests accordingly :-)

[tlp]

What is the average income of a Norwegian in US Dollars?

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by merlin2111

It is all relative. I have multiple hobbies and car modification and ownership while expensive is the only one that I get to enjoy everyday. How many other hobbies do you get to do to and from work and on the weekends?

True. That is a good way to see it!

Originally Posted by tlp

What is the average income of a Norwegian in US Dollars?

Rougly estimated after taxes the normal full-time worker (median number) get paid out 35000-45000USD a year. Usually around 50000-80000USD before taxes. Taxes, pension-saving and all that stuff takes about 30-45% off the paycheck.
But u can not translate that into US economy. We have very good health systems, child support etc etc...

Most things and parts cost 20-50% more here. But cars have tons of extra taxes on top of that.

Electronics and stuff are not that expensive here.
PS3: 350USD
High end cell phone :750USD
Canon EOS 600D: 900USD

Prices are about:
US gallon of petrol near: 10USD
One hour labor at a car mechanic is 200USD + parts.
Wathing movie at cinema: 18USD
Big mac meal at Mcdonalds: 12USD
0,4l beer out on the city: about 10USD
Nice meal at a resturant: 34 USD (could easily cost much more)
Parking in the city while watching movie and eating: 10USD
Yearly insurance on a 2010 Mini Cooper S with high bonus: 1000USD

Houses we consider expensive. High amounts of our money goes into the house/apartment downpayment.
Typical apartment for couples/small family:350000USD.
Typical nice and new family house: 600000USD.
Prices are even higher in and near the cities.

Car prices:
USED 05 Ford Focus wagon: 17000USD
Toyota Aygo/Kia Picanto: 22000USD (cheapest new cars here)
VW Golf with small diesel engine: 400000USD (most sold car, and typical car price)
USED 01 S2000: 43000USD (currently 2 cars for sale)
Mini Cooper with some options: 45000USD
Mini Cooper S with some options: 65000USD
USED 04 350Z : 75000USD (currently 3 cars for sale, low milage)
GT86/BRZ: 78000USD
USED 02 E46 M3: 800000 USD
Porsche911/BMW M3/Nissan GT-R: about 260000USD
Ferrari 458: 530000USD

American muscle cars are not sold here due to prices being same or higher compared to Porsches/M3s/GT-Rs due to engine taxes.
Brand new high powered WRX, (STI), 370z and cars like that are not being sold new here either. People with money spend a little extra and get a "premium" sports car for just a little extra.
It is mostly rich people or 40+ year old bachlors with good income who can afford new cars with 300+ HP. They are a rare sight on the road.

Norway is a good country to live in. I believe one of the richest in the world. With a healt care system in the top! But as most people we can all complain about some prices and want more if we are in the mood, even tough we are in a pretty good living situation. But car enthusiasts gets ripped of here!
If you want to buy a used car that is only a year old you have to pay 3000USD for the 10min paperwork it takes someone to get the car over in your name. Ridiculous, I know! Those numbers goes down fast when the car gets older. But just an example of extreme and stupid "car tax".
Tought id share some frustration... Should make Americans feel good about their car prices atleast!

WOW, this post got way too big.. again...
Id like to see some US prices in comparison if someone would bother.
Or prices from other countries...

[suprachica79]

Do you have to pay to go to college over there?

[blur]

Originally Posted by RaceR

Yearly insurance on a 2010 Mini Cooper S with high bonus: 1000USD

Lol I just turned 21 and I was getting quotes like $2500 here in NY for my accord.

As to your question, I play a lot of Forza and mess with RC cars. That is, until I can afford the FR-S.

I want to build a RC drift car, but 100% of the kits are 4wd, and RWD drifting is new so there aren't any kits for it.... to convert a 4wd to 2wd you need to remove belts/driveshaft and move weight to the front, which involves drilling new chassis holes and custom work. I'm waiting for a balanced kit with lots of steering angle.

As usual, Japan is way ahead already lol. A lot of custom work goes into these...

[u2b]pFHyq_oizag[/u2b]

Here's my project car



Lol sorry way off topic. But it's a fun and cheap hobby that deals with cars(sort of haha).

[OrbitalEllipses]

I think it's expensive compared to other hobbies. There will always be more expensive hobbies, but generally speaking, regardless of location it's an expensive hobby to have. That's also contingent upon how into the hobby you are (project cars, tools, best parts vs. okay parts).

[DEnd]

Automotive fun is just one of my expensive hobbies.

Fishing; I'm looking at spending $25,000-$30,000 on a pond so I don't have to drive anywhere to go fishing.

Skiing; Equipment is like $1,000 every few years, a couple of grand for some decent trips every year, plus another grand or two on local skiing.

Movies; I easily spend $1200 a year on movies either seeing them in the theater or buying dvd's/blurays

Music; have you priced recording equipment, instruments or sound reinforcement equipment?

Theatrical shows; good god man plays are freakin expensive.

Concerts; uhh... actually I don't pay for those, but the cost to maintain the friendships that allow me that is pretty high.

Photography; thankfully my equipment is all paid for, but I desperately need to upgrade to digital. unfortunately that also means I need new lenses...

Farming; Fences be expensive yo... I also just bought a combine, while I have only spent ~$600 on it, it is also getting restored... I expect to spend $14,000-$20,000 by the time its done.

You don't have to make sacrifices to enjoy your hobby, you just have to hobby responsibly... which means figuring out ways to have fun without spending loads of cash. A great automotive example is stock class autocross. In the US you need a car unless you live in NYC, Chicago, or possibly DC and a few other cities. So you already have the car then it's just another say $2,000 or less a year and that includes tires and entrance fees. I used to spend more than that racing go-karts every year when I was a teenager.

[Dave-ROR]

Cars are my most expensive hobby (I'm not including car purchases, just upgrades/maint to my street cars and maint/repairs/racing funds for the race car and autocross/DE fees whenever I do those).

Second most is probably hockey, 1k+ in equipment and replacing stuff whenever needed, tape/sharpenings/etc often, leaque fees, etc.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by suprachica79

Do you have to pay to go to college over there?

Shcool system is a little different her. You do not have high-school and college in the same way.
As long as you dont go to special private schools then it is as basically free for higher/university education.
Altough, most students does not live at home and get everything paid, so they easily get 10-15000USD in loans for every study year. Most study from 2-6 years. And the average student are living as cheap as possible!
Students can get special "students-loans" with very low interest here. Basically everybody could get a higher education if they want...

If you are buying and apartment/house after studies, and then getting kids. Going to have a wedding.. Have typical vacations and stuff. Then most people will not afford a really nice car with 200+hp. Atleast not until kids have grown up.

______________________

A car in norway have 25% VAT on top of US prices.
We also have taxes for Weigh, CO2, and HP and this year we have some taxes for Nox too..

Here are some HP taxes on new cars:
100hp: 350USD
130hp: 2200USD
150hp: 4400USD
180hp: 8300USD
200hp: 14.000USD
250hp: 27.000USD
300hp: 43.500USD
400hp: 70.000USD
500hp: 98.900USD

CO2 taxes:
120g: 650USD
150g: 5.200USD
180g: 10.800USD
200g: 17.000USD
250g: 34.800USD
300G: 58.000USD

Weight taxes:
1000kg: 6500USD
1200kg: 8000USD
1500kg: 13700USD
2000kg: 30000USD

Ideally the GT86 should be "torque tuned" for 174hp and maximum 170g CO2.
That would make it 10400USD cheaper! Above those numbers taxes get really high! Especially on engine specs..

A 250HP NA BRZ STI would be awesome, but it would probably be too expensive for me and most people. Too much compromises with living expenses would have to be made.
We would have to pay about 20000USD in extra engine taxes..! ... for adding +50HP and +20Co2 over the normal model! + the extra price of the STI parts/engine tuning+ the extra VAT...