Innovate Owners - BE CAREFUL! - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

swift996 · 08-27-2013, 11:01 PM

Sorry to make a whole post but thought it would be worthwhile for anyone owning one to check the fitting that feeds air/vacuum to the brake booster. The grey plastic one. I was on the track at VIR and had my pedal drop to the floor (pretty scary but fortunately was at a sort of slower part of the track).

Mine some how came slightly loose and the brakes could only engage at about 10% until you pumped the brake hard a few times and then again the pressure would leak out.

If I were on the straight there (hitting about 130mph) I would have been into the wall and totaled my car.

I did a temp fix where I just slapped some lock-tite all around it and turned it as far as it would go. I plan to take it off and inspect it since I'm back from the track.

mad_sb · 08-27-2013, 11:04 PM

scary shit man.

F1point4 · 08-27-2013, 11:13 PM

Hey Mr Swift,

I'm glad you are okay. Hopefully you can fix what ails your baby. Do you have to buy a new seat from the pants wetting you may have done?

Regards,
The man who takes photos.

sw20kosh · 08-27-2013, 11:23 PM

Thank you for the heads up!

Is this the 90 deg hose fitting? I am confused at how a small leak from there could cause the brake booster to fail. The vacuum level in the manifold is not going to fall sufficiently low due to a tiny leak right? I don't know to much about how the brake booster works though...

swift996 · 08-27-2013, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Thank you for the heads up!

Is this the 90 deg hose fitting? I am confused at how a small leak from there could cause the brake booster to fail. The vacuum level in the manifold is not going to fall sufficiently low due to a tiny leak right? I don't know to much about how the brake booster works though...

Yes the 90 degree one. I'm not 100% sure how it works. I had someone sit in and apply the brakes when I moved the fitting freely to the left he said the pedal lost all pressure and it firmed up when I went to the right with it.

NickFRS · 08-28-2013, 12:36 AM

Crazy! Good thing the drift gods invented the E-brake.

nonicname · 08-28-2013, 08:39 AM

WTF how is this kit messing with the brakes?

swift996 · 08-28-2013, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonicname

WTF how is this kit messing with the brakes?

Read above, there's a fitting that pumps air to the brake booster which pressurizes your brake master cylinder.

There isn't really a pic worth taking just that my fitting was able to move left and right freely.

wparsons · 08-28-2013, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swift996

Read above, there's a fitting that pumps air to the brake booster which pressurizes your brake master cylinder.

There isn't really a pic worth taking just that my fitting was able to move left and right freely.

Uhhh, the brake booster runs off vacuum, not positive pressure. Without vacuum the pedal would go really hard, not really soft. Proof of this is what the pedal does with the engine not running (0 vacuum), it goes really hard really quick.

For safety, I would re-bleed all four brakes before driving it again. It sounds more like air in the system than something caused by a loose vacuum fitting.

nonicname · 08-28-2013, 09:42 AM

well I don't know what the brake booster is.
This is why I'm never the first to buy anything. way too many bugs going on
ALWAYS.

swift996 · 08-28-2013, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wparsons

Uhhh, the brake booster runs off vacuum, not positive pressure. Without vacuum the pedal would go really hard, not really soft. Proof of this is what the pedal does with the engine not running (0 vacuum), it goes really hard really quick.

For safety, I would re-bleed all four brakes before driving it again. It sounds more like air in the system than something caused by a loose vacuum fitting.

I'm going to fully bleed them again. I did twice at the track until I got no bubbles. Not very familiar with how the vacuum pressure works but when I loosened the fitting by rotating it left the pedal lost pressure (car running).

Z-PDX · 08-28-2013, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swift996

I'm going to fully bleed them again. I did twice at the track until I got no bubbles. Not very familiar with how the vacuum pressure works but when I loosened the fitting by rotating it left the pedal lost pressure (car running).

Curiouser and curiouser. I can't imagine a scenario where loss of vacuum would cause the pedal to go to the floor.

As posted above, it would normally go hard. Going past its normal travel would normally indicate something in the hydraulic system, such as excessive heat or air.

Please keep us all posted.

mad_sb · 08-28-2013, 11:21 AM

so, i'm starting to think maybee you boiled the fluid AND have a vacuum leak on the booster. When the booster is NOT under vacuum, you have a firm pedal due to no vacuum assist, when you do have vacuum on the booster you have sponge pedal due to the bubbles in the fluid.....

Bleed them again for sure.

xjohnx · 08-28-2013, 11:36 AM

What kind of brake fluid were you running?

08-27-2013, 11:01 PM	#1
swift996 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Drives: Subaru BRZ Limited 6MT Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 2,432 Thanks: 712 Thanked 955 Times in 545 Posts Mentioned: 47 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Innovate Owners - BE CAREFUL! Sorry to make a whole post but thought it would be worthwhile for anyone owning one to check the fitting that feeds air/vacuum to the brake booster. The grey plastic one. I was on the track at VIR and had my pedal drop to the floor (pretty scary but fortunately was at a sort of slower part of the track). Mine some how came slightly loose and the brakes could only engage at about 10% until you pumped the brake hard a few times and then again the pressure would leak out. If I were on the straight there (hitting about 130mph) I would have been into the wall and totaled my car. I did a temp fix where I just slapped some lock-tite all around it and turned it as far as it would go. I plan to take it off and inspect it since I'm back from the track. __________________ Innovate Supercharged Black Limited BRZ 6-Speed MT(Build Thread) 2010 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan M6 w/550whp (Build Thread)

08-27-2013, 11:04 PM	#2
mad_sb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S Location: Orange County Posts: 1,639 Thanks: 632 Thanked 982 Times in 537 Posts Mentioned: 100 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	scary shit man. __________________ ~Namaste~ 2013 Asphalt FRS

08-27-2013, 11:13 PM	#3
F1point4 Photo Specialist Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 2013 Toyota 86 DGM 6MT Location: Texas Posts: 1,152 Thanks: 587 Thanked 1,804 Times in 420 Posts Mentioned: 94 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Hey Mr Swift, I'm glad you are okay. Hopefully you can fix what ails your baby. Do you have to buy a new seat from the pants wetting you may have done? Regards, The man who takes photos. __________________ Lola - Toyota 86 6MT Dark Gray Metallic My 86 Flickr Set

08-27-2013, 11:23 PM	#4
sw20kosh Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: 2013 Black FR-S Location: SF Posts: 3,030 Thanks: 881 Thanked 2,014 Times in 990 Posts Mentioned: 153 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Thank you for the heads up! Is this the 90 deg hose fitting? I am confused at how a small leak from there could cause the brake booster to fail. The vacuum level in the manifold is not going to fall sufficiently low due to a tiny leak right? I don't know to much about how the brake booster works though... __________________ 86DRIVE Challenge

08-28-2013, 12:36 AM	#6
NickFRS Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 Asphalt FRS Location: Gladstone Posts: 1,450 Thanks: 899 Thanked 440 Times in 286 Posts Mentioned: 75 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Crazy! Good thing the drift gods invented the E-brake. __________________ 2013 Sion FRS 2014 Subaru WRX 2014 Subaru XV

08-28-2013, 08:39 AM	#7
nonicname Banned Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: it has 4 wheels and a motor Location: Planet Earth Posts: 479 Thanks: 69 Thanked 173 Times in 93 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	WTF how is this kit messing with the brakes?

08-28-2013, 09:42 AM	#10
nonicname Banned Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: it has 4 wheels and a motor Location: Planet Earth Posts: 479 Thanks: 69 Thanked 173 Times in 93 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	well I don't know what the brake booster is. This is why I'm never the first to buy anything. way too many bugs going on ALWAYS.

08-28-2013, 11:21 AM	#13
mad_sb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S Location: Orange County Posts: 1,639 Thanks: 632 Thanked 982 Times in 537 Posts Mentioned: 100 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	so, i'm starting to think maybee you boiled the fluid AND have a vacuum leak on the booster. When the booster is NOT under vacuum, you have a firm pedal due to no vacuum assist, when you do have vacuum on the booster you have sponge pedal due to the bubbles in the fluid..... Bleed them again for sure. __________________ ~Namaste~ 2013 Asphalt FRS

08-28-2013, 11:36 AM	#14
xjohnx Grip>Slip Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 13 SWP BRZ Ltd - Innovate Powered! Location: RVA Posts: 3,563 Thanks: 656 Thanked 1,717 Times in 1,031 Posts Mentioned: 45 Post(s) Tagged: 3 Thread(s)	What kind of brake fluid were you running?

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