Suspension is evil voodoo

[Pete]

OK, as @powerj2 recently posted in my build thread:

time for suspension!

I've added a Vortech kit for power, PSS@245 to put it to the ground, sway bars to stiffen up the body roll, and strut tower bars to help with body flex.

I am not interested in cosmetic suspension mods/lowering for my car, I've seen plenty of cars that look awesome lowered but living in Houston, TX, that is not for me. This town is made for F-150s and RAMs. That said, if I have to take a small drop to get performance where I want it then so be it. As long as I can still get up my driveway.

The problem is that I know next to nothing about setting up a suspension properly to do what I want it to do. Hell, I don't even know for sure what I want it to do!

So what I want is a high quality suspension system that I can try out at various settings until I can decide what is best for me. In general I am not a drifter I prefer to stay planted and fast, but i wouldn't want to remove the playfulness entirely if such a thing is even possible.

I don't have a "money is no object" situation but I don't mind getting premium parts as long as I get real performance for my money.

Can anybody help out with suggestions experiences etc.?

[Calum]

Lots of people buy coilovers for the adjustablity, but they don't know how to properly adjust them or even why to adjust them. For a simple, effective, comfortable, street setup, I'd recommend a set of lowering springs on either stock or Koni dampers. Throw in some bushings to keep things where they're supposed to be under load, some camber adjusters, and a good alignment. Oh, and some good tires.

A stock FRS with just better tires has been shown to be capable of a 1g turn, so we have a pretty good starting point already. To simplify things, the bushings and springs will help with confidence and transitions. The tires and alignment will help with overall grip.

Take a look at @Racecomp Engineering 's packages. @Sam Strano and @CSG Mike seems to cater to a more advanced customer, but they should be able to give you sound advice aswell.

[CSG Mike]

Are you interested in playing with dampers that have real adjustability?

I'll be more than happy to give you feedback on adjustments based on your feedback and/or datalogs.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Are you interested in playing with dampers that have real adjustability?

I'll be more than happy to give you feedback on adjustments based on your feedback and/or datalogs.

That sounds like what I am looking for, I am just starting the planning phase though. What sort of hardware would you recommend?

BTW I apologize in advance if I am slow to respond, I am doing some good ole military training this week so I have an unpredictable schedule.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pete

That sounds like what I am looking for, I am just starting the planning phase though. What sort of hardware would you recommend?

BTW I apologize in advance if I am slow to respond, I am doing some good ole military training this week so I have an unpredictable schedule.

First, we need to determine what your goals are.

On a scale of 100%, what would you break down your usage is for street/spirited/canyon/track/etc.?

What aspects of the stock suspension do you like? What do you not like? What would you like to change? How would you like to change it? Any feedback is better than none in this regard, regardless of your knowledge and experience.

What are your priorities with the suspension? How much comfort are you willing to sacrifice? Rough budget?

The more information you provide, the better I can guide you toward a potential solution, and what seems to be a learning experience; you seem far more open than most to learning how to actually adjust your suspension based on conditions and intended use. There is no "one size fits all", unfortunately.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

First, we need to determine what your goals are.

On a scale of 100%, what would you break down your usage is for street/spirited/canyon/track/etc.?

What aspects of the stock suspension do you like? What do you not like? What would you like to change? How would you like to change it? Any feedback is better than none in this regard, regardless of your knowledge and experience.

What are your priorities with the suspension? How much comfort are you willing to sacrifice? Rough budget?

The more information you provide, the better I can guide you toward a potential solution, and what seems to be a learning experience; you seem far more open than most to learning how to actually adjust your suspension based on conditions and intended use. There is no "one size fits all", unfortunately.

The car is my DD that in the near term I intend to take to some HPDE classes and eventually track. When it is retired from DD service it will be a weekend fun/track car.

Right now we can say 78% street / 20% spirited / 2% track. A couple of track days over the next 3 months sounds doable.

I want to calm down the rear from swinging out quite so easily when using power in a curve now that I have added power to it. That is priority #1. I love the way the car handles for the most part, but I read that Randy Pobst preferred the BRZ's handling and said it created more confidence. I'd like to try to see what he's talking about.

Since the car is my current DD I'd like to keep it as comfortable as possible. Since I am here posting I am obviously willing to make some sacrifices on that front in the name of performance...because I am most comfortable in a car that performs well.

Rough budget is a tough call since I know so little about the total hardware package involved. I can save for longer if I need more money to achieve what I want. I have taken a look at the price of good adjustable coilovers (KW V3s) so I have an idea of the starting ballpark, and I can definitely put a few more $ than that into it.

Thanks for taking the time!

[CSG Mike]

Well, it sounds like you're getting power oversteer. That, unfortunately, can't be solved with suspension changes, but it can be *slightly* lessened by reducing the lateral weight transfer rate. That involves stiffer springs, which do contribute to a harsher ride. The real solution to solving the power-over is stickier tires.

The BRZ understeers more than the FR-S at terminal, making it an easier car to drive at the limits of a completely stock car. Both cars will oversteer with rough/excessive input, leading to the "fun factor" that a lot of people reference. It sounds like a setup that has some push will be what you're looking for, especially since you'll be able to force oversteer at-will via the gas pedal. A slightly pushy setup is easier to drive consistently and is definitely more confidence inspiring.

While the KW V3's are great for street driving, they're NOT up to any sort of track duty, if you plan on going more than once or twice; you'll quickly hit their limitations.

Ultimately, how much time are you willing to spend learning to adjust the dampers? A one-way damper gives you very little flexibility, if any, in changing springs, while a two-way damper gives you a good amount of flexibility with a higher end damper. Springs are relatively cheap for coilovers, and can be changed at home with basic tools.

Have you had the opportunity to ride in any cars with coilovers?

[powerj2]

Im running Kw V3's

If you only track 2% of the time I think they will be perfect for what you want. I may have mentioned it in the other thread but I only have the car dropped 20mm. Which is plenty!

kw got my vote!

[Veovius]

Please keep discussions on this thread so the rest of us can learn something by osmosis!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by powerj2

Im running Kw V3's

If you only track 2% of the time I think they will be perfect for what you want. I may have mentioned it in the other thread but I only have the car dropped 20mm. Which is plenty!

kw got my vote!

The OP seems like he'll be somewhat regularly seeing the track. Our philosophy is to get our clients a product that they will not outgrow. In other words, do it right the first time.

His track usage may be 2%, but that 2% is what may cause a failure or dissatisfaction with the car.

An extreme example, but I'm pretty sure you carry auto insurance. None of us want to get into an accident, and the odds are miniscule, but we all carry auto insurance, right?

If you've already spent the coin on KW V3's, you've got a great product for aggressive street use, but it'll quickly become a limiting factor on track, especially when you have the willingness to learn and be open to suggestions like the OP. It's a great platform for learning how to adjust suspension, however.

[powerj2]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The OP seems like he'll be somewhat regularly seeing the track. Our philosophy is to get our clients a product that they will not outgrow. In other words, do it right the first time.

His track usage may be 2%, but that 2% is what may cause a failure or dissatisfaction with the car.

An extreme example, but I'm pretty sure you carry auto insurance. None of us want to get into an accident, and the odds are miniscule, but we all carry auto insurance, right?

If you've already spent the coin on KW V3's, you've got a great product for aggressive street use, but it'll quickly become a limiting factor on track, especially when you have the willingness to learn and be open to suggestions like the OP. It's a great platform for learning how to adjust suspension, however.

Yes I completely agree. We don't have any tracks in Newfoundland so just the od autocross every 2nd weekend during the summer! Which works out perfectly for me!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, it sounds like you're getting power oversteer. That, unfortunately, can't be solved with suspension changes, but it can be *slightly* lessened by reducing the lateral weight transfer rate. That involves stiffer springs, which do contribute to a harsher ride. The real solution to solving the power-over is stickier tires.

The BRZ understeers more than the FR-S at terminal, making it an easier car to drive at the limits of a completely stock car. Both cars will oversteer with rough/excessive input, leading to the "fun factor" that a lot of people reference. It sounds like a setup that has some push will be what you're looking for, especially since you'll be able to force oversteer at-will via the gas pedal. A slightly pushy setup is easier to drive consistently and is definitely more confidence inspiring.

While the KW V3's are great for street driving, they're NOT up to any sort of track duty, if you plan on going more than once or twice; you'll quickly hit their limitations.

Ultimately, how much time are you willing to spend learning to adjust the dampers? A one-way damper gives you very little flexibility, if any, in changing springs, while a two-way damper gives you a good amount of flexibility with a higher end damper. Springs are relatively cheap for coilovers, and can be changed at home with basic tools.

Have you had the opportunity to ride in any cars with coilovers?

I have not knowingly rode in one with aftermarket coilovers.

I am willing to spend many weekends playing with it, it seems that is all I spend my leisure time on nowadays anyway. I have basic tools and a garage so I don't mind swapping the springs for different purposes, in fact that sounds fun.

I just very recently got my new wider wheels and tires so I may have already solved my #1 problem, I'll power around a few curves when I get back to my car next week and check.

I like what you are saying about having some push. Being able to drive consistently and with more confidence in the handling sounds like the ticket. I think that is exactly the sort of thing I want to learn the feel of.

Thanks again

[CSG Mike]

Lets wait for you results with the wider tires before committing to any sort of purchase. LMK how it goes.

[Pete]

Found a good article for guys like me.

http://www.corbymotorsport.com/tuning_guide.php

You can thank wikipedia for both of these.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...lovers/Part_1/