Moto-East E85 Testing - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Xero-Limit · 03-09-2013, 03:13 PM

...actually E70 as it is winter and E85 is not yet available. However, in testing various blends throughout this process, it is a non-issue other than a few more HP! All are selectable and you don't need the variable sensor (though it would help for consistency)

We started with the pump gas and added some timing and fuel to zero out the trims and get an idea as to what else needs changing. After a few hours on the street it was clear we're at a point at which the knock sensor is no longer a guide for best torque, as it is nearly silent past 50% ethanol. So we get it to the final 70% available concentration, put in some conservative numbers, and strap it down. Blue is stock, green is pump gas tune, vomit color is the street estimated e70 tune, and reds are the best torque and best hp maps (now combined).

Then looking at the ethanol dyno we can see the gains down low and midrange:

And we then tweaked a few other things which ended up dropping our low end (as expected, wanted verification on the dyno) but got our top-end even higher.

So the final mapping is using a combination of those.

Below is the stock vs E70 tunes:

Overall these are HUGE gains on a 2l car, I honestly did not expect it to be this good! All runs were done in 4th gear, though the stock and pump gas tune were on colder temps so I expect we could have had even more gains today! We're also using the strongest stock map out of all the pulls we did to give subaru the benefit of the doubt. Car has bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, stock header) but truthfully the stock (but tuned) car performed quite similarly, just quieter and maybe 5 hp down. Of note, we were running on a dyno that historically reads 5% lower than the other dynojet we use which reads the same as a mustang dyno in the same place, so I have no doubt we can hit 200whp, especially when the header arrives!

Simmons · 03-09-2013, 06:43 PM

It feels strong on the street. I will see how it works tomorrow at the Auto X.

Simmons

jflogerzi · 03-09-2013, 08:41 PM

Nice numbers. I am looking forward to testing e85 next week.

wgnzlz · 03-09-2013, 08:47 PM

Sounds like I need to get this tune from you Mike.

feldy · 03-09-2013, 09:35 PM

Is the Moto east tune being done via ecutek or brz edit?

Simmons · 03-09-2013, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldy

Is the Moto east tune being done via ecutek or brz edit?

Ecutek

feldy · 03-09-2013, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmons

It feels strong on the street. I will see how it works tomorrow at the Auto X.

Simmons

Please make sure to give a good review of the tune durring Autocross runs. Very excited.

Simmons · 03-10-2013, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldy

Please make sure to give a good review of the tune durring Autocross runs. Very excited.

Will do.

Simmons

aCab · 03-10-2013, 06:13 AM

Wow, can't wait to see how much you can get on true e85!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

AllDayJonRay · 07-22-2013, 04:45 PM

Mike, Did you ever get to go back and test (with dyno time) true E85??

Also, have their been any concerns or issues with long-term E50/70/85 use?? I'm switching next month and just wanted some updates on your progress and experience so far.

Xero-Limit · 07-22-2013, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllDayJonRay

Mike, Did you ever get to go back and test (with dyno time) true E85??

Also, have their been any concerns or issues with long-term E50/70/85 use?? I'm switching next month and just wanted some updates on your progress and experience so far.

We did but the conditions were all too different for an effective comparison. Though honestly I think performance normally aspirated will peak around 50-70% ethanol. After that it is diminishing returns unless you have boost.

Long term wise I don't think there's enough data just yet.

AllDayJonRay · 07-23-2013, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto-mike

We did but the conditions were all too different for an effective comparison. Though honestly I think performance normally aspirated will peak around 50-70% ethanol. After that it is diminishing returns unless you have boost.

Long term wise I don't think there's enough data just yet.

Thanks! Have you run into any problems yet??

03-09-2013, 03:13 PM	#1
Xero-Limit Join Date: Nov 2012 Drives: JDL Turbo FRS, 335SC BRZ (ret) Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 938 Thanks: 368 Thanked 1,550 Times in 527 Posts Mentioned: 380 Post(s) Tagged: 6 Thread(s)	Moto-East E85 Testing ...actually E70 as it is winter and E85 is not yet available. However, in testing various blends throughout this process, it is a non-issue other than a few more HP! All are selectable and you don't need the variable sensor (though it would help for consistency) We started with the pump gas and added some timing and fuel to zero out the trims and get an idea as to what else needs changing. After a few hours on the street it was clear we're at a point at which the knock sensor is no longer a guide for best torque, as it is nearly silent past 50% ethanol. So we get it to the final 70% available concentration, put in some conservative numbers, and strap it down. Blue is stock, green is pump gas tune, vomit color is the street estimated e70 tune, and reds are the best torque and best hp maps (now combined). Then looking at the ethanol dyno we can see the gains down low and midrange: And we then tweaked a few other things which ended up dropping our low end (as expected, wanted verification on the dyno) but got our top-end even higher. So the final mapping is using a combination of those. Below is the stock vs E70 tunes: Overall these are HUGE gains on a 2l car, I honestly did not expect it to be this good! All runs were done in 4th gear, though the stock and pump gas tune were on colder temps so I expect we could have had even more gains today! We're also using the strongest stock map out of all the pulls we did to give subaru the benefit of the doubt. Car has bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, stock header) but truthfully the stock (but tuned) car performed quite similarly, just quieter and maybe 5 hp down. Of note, we were running on a dyno that historically reads 5% lower than the other dynojet we use which reads the same as a mustang dyno in the same place, so I have no doubt we can hit 200whp, especially when the header arrives!

03-09-2013, 06:43 PM	#2
Simmons Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2024 GR86/ 2015 FRS Location: PA Posts: 961 Thanks: 306 Thanked 575 Times in 269 Posts Mentioned: 17 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It feels strong on the street. I will see how it works tomorrow at the Auto X. Simmons __________________ 2024 GR86 71 STR/ 2015 FRS 71 STX Sponsors Xero-Limit//Karcepts

03-09-2013, 09:35 PM	#5
feldy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Drives: 2013 FRS Asphalt Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,155 Thanks: 309 Thanked 335 Times in 212 Posts Mentioned: 21 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Is the Moto east tune being done via ecutek or brz edit? __________________ 2013 Scion FR-S AT Picked up 5/30/2012

03-10-2013, 06:13 AM	#9
aCab Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Drives: FR-S & S2k Location: Here Posts: 161 Thanks: 25 Thanked 70 Times in 37 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Wow, can't wait to see how much you can get on true e85! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD __________________ Bilstein Damptronic Prototypes \| Other silly bits

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