talk me out of buying other cars and wait for the 86!

[mokinbird87]

so i have been driving my wrx for a long time (170k miles on her) and i feel the need for something different, but i really have no idea what i want/need. i have been driving a lot of cars recently to narrow down on what i want, but the test drives made it even harder . the best car i have driven so far that will work for my budget is a slightly used 05+(987) boxster.

first of all, I wouldnt be interested in the fr-s/brz at all if it wasnt for my brother who has a NB miata; everytime we swapped keys i did not want to return it to him. it didnt matter whatever horsepower it had, it just felt so nimble and quick (for me, power-to-weight ratio and the actual curve of the power on the graph is what really matters, rather than X amount of hp and Y amount of torque). However, i am 6' tall so looking either under or over the windshield got tiresome real quick, along with crazy wind noise and the lack of 'emergency' back seats... my wrx never carried people around comfortably but if i needed to, it did the job. i also work as a designer and i never know what i will have to carry to the office (large posters, prototypes, etc).

however, just recently i am starting to discover that i am a LOT more softcore than a lot of people on this forum... i still care a lot about the driving feel (heel-and-toe pedal postion is something that is vital) but i`m not the type of a guy that will do EVERY single oil change myself. in fact, i will admit that i get exhausted from driving/maintaining my subie, mostly because of its heavy steering (in parking lot speeds) and a bouncy ride (tokico d specs and prodrive springs...which are considered very mild). even though i love my car when driving spiritedly, and knowing very well that those small uncomfortable factors help every bit for the way the car performs, i will admit that i want something a bit more refined to drive for everyday duty (lots of kudos for guys that daily their coilovered cars); my girlfriend would appreciate it too when we go to places.

but so far, i have not been able to find the car with a perfect two face; when it is nice and comfortable, it almost always is too soft for me and does not satisfy my boy racer inside. boxster came really close but the main thing stopping me is the lack of back seats and the maintenance cost of the car (which tells me i should stay away from it and cannot afford it comfortably yet, but you only live once right? ) I am hoping that the fr-s/brz will be that perfect "jack of all trades" car, but I feel that it is more suited for the hardcore enthusiasts.

here are some options that i am thinking of and hopefully you can throw your opinion about the choices:

1. keep the wrx (paid off car), do whatever i want and auto-x, track with it, buy another nice daily (something like an audi a3 tdi for long comfy trips with great gas mileage that is still relatively fun to drive). i still see a lot of potential in the subaru, but defnitely doesnt get my heart pumping like it used to.

or buy one of these cars that i have driven:

2.infiniti g37 coupe: love the way it drives (feels a lot lighter than it really is), interior is gorgeous, lots of luxury features i have been wanting, and it will be very reliable. however, it is EVERYWHERE and is terrible on gas.

3.vw r32 dsg: love the limted/special feel, very nice interior, easy to manuever at low speeds despite the AWD, love the usable torque. but the DSG feels clunky when just cruising, worried about vw reliability, heavy engine on the nose makes it feel nervous when really going at it in the corners (fishtails).

4.c6 vette: cheap insurance (compared to the wrx and probably the fr-s), relatively cheap cost to maintain overall with an amazing engine. but as soon as i took a corner, i can definitely feel the heavy front end and the slow steering response. build quality is rather disgusting but the good fun in the straights almost makes up for it. supposedly 30 mpg with the pushrod v8s? i can believe it as i was cruising at 70mph in 1500pm.

5.genesis coupe (drove every single trim) track edition rides stupid stiff... like as if it has no suspension stroke, and the brembos are very touchy in feel. engine feels like it has the advertised power but doesnt rev/respond as quickly as i`d like. 4 cylinder turbo is just slow in stock form and i do not plan on modifying a car with a 10 year warranty. this car feels the best with the v6 and the auto tranny in its comfortable grand touring trim, but the infiniti does the luxury thing better in my opinion. and i hate to admit it, but i dont want to be THAT korean guy in a korean car.

6.boxster (987) loved every detail; even the door handle, how it rotates up slightly when opening. engine sounds phenominal, brakes feel perfect and when i want to just settle down and cruise, it does so very well. again, lack of rear seats bother me, but still trying to figure out if it's a mental thing since i`ve always had a sedan. one major flaw is of course the cost of ownership; i want to auto-x without having to worry how much the next tune up will cost me.

7.nc miata hardtop: love everything about the way it drives, love the hardtop convertible, but i am an insecure guy and needs to be seen in something more manly to look more manly . more useable torque would be nice also. rear end feels a bit floaty in stock form, but i`m sure with just a set of performace spring/sway bar set up that will be quickly fixed. not too sure about mazda reliability in general.

8.bmw 335i coupe: i have yet to drive a manual one, but the automatic one has been a big disappointment for me. run flat tires really make the car ride like a skateboard at any speed and even though it may advertise 300hp and a flat torque at low rpm, the car isnt really eager to be driven hard. but it looks so gorgeous and still makes me wonder how it would drive with a proper manual tranny and a nice set of regular summer tires?

9.mini cooper s: forgot about FWD and just took the car for a drive. after a quick run i can confidently say that the mini will outrun just about anything on a small narrow road that has small room for error. i did the exact same road in my wrx just to compare and it was everywhere... great car, but again my insecure masculinity stops me, not to mention it's reliability horror stories. ride comfort is non exisistence for me being 6ft+... no matter how low i go i always felt like i was sat on the car rather than in it.

10. rx-8: loved driving the car a lot (especailly the way it revs so smoothly to its redline) but the clutch take up is too light for me and the rotary reliability scares me. i would like some sort of fuel efficinecy also.

11. rsx-s: quite possibly the cheapest option as a lightly used one will be half the cost of the fr-s, but the suspension moves a bit awkward fo me; it has a pretty good limit in stock form but it seems to snap into under/oversteer on mid corner bumps. it also rides very stiff and its heavy steering with fwd steering angle makes it a chore to drive in everyday situation.

12. s2000: too small inside, same problem with the rsx in the suspension department (i never feel comfortable driving it fast). if it wasnt for the small cabin, i actually find the ride very supple because i prefer solid stiff suspension with minimal bobble head affect rather than soft and jiggly one.

13.fr-s / brz: promises to be the exact car i have been wanting, but just worried that it may be a bit too hardcore for me to drive everyday. 2 liter square boxer motor will feel great when revving to the redline but when i want to just cruise, will it settle down and drive quietly? will it have the torque to pull me over the hills without downshifting? if it really turns out to be a bargain cayman with rear seats, this will be the perfect car for me, but as i have stated before, i feel like i dont have the spirit like the most of you on this forum. cayman/boxster package is amazing because it has the performance AND the comfort IMO... but asking for that at a price of $25k and under is nonsense to begin with. But toyota set the bar not me right?

thanks for reading such a long post and your opinion would be greatly appreciated! obviously i have to drive the fr-s/brz and i am hoping that the car will be exactly what i think it will be, but it will be valuable for me to hear what you guys have to say. thanks again.

[Guff]

Man, you've really been looking around!

I have driven virtually none of these cars and can't tell you anything about them. But from looking at what you want, I think you will be more than satisfied with the BRZ/FRS; more so than you would be with any of these other cars.

[chulooz]

You have a paid off wrx? Spend ~$10K on whatever you want to make it a capable track car, then spend ~$10K on a decent daily. This saves the most money.

Or check out the driving experiences in proper 993/964, they seem to fulfill all of your needs. Its expensive ownership, but its the upkeep of an iconic sports car.

[glorydays]

not too sure about mazda reliability in general.

whoa whoa whoa... i take offense! treat it right and it will reciprocate bro! Plus, nothing is more manly than a miata. It says "I am comfortable with my sexuality. My nuts are truly bigger than yours." just dont drive with any male passengers. People might get the wrong idea...

[ryude]

I found the s2000 way too small as well, yet I owned an MR2 for many years without issue. As far as a daily driver/track car the closest you're gonna get without spending too much money is a new WRX. Because of that, I'd say keep your existing WRX.

[SteelReign]

For those insecure moments, use some high tints! but really, the mx-5 is really lacking in the practicality department. Its a total deal-breaker for me, along with the S2000.

I like the idea of the RSX type S, but living in a theft-prone city, it would get snatched in no time. Practicality of a hatch is great, its a "luxury" car and it can turn fun once V-TEC kicks in yo.

What year is the WRX? it seems like it could be pretty exclusive, practical and fun. The FR-S/BRZ might be a good option once its on sale. Until then, no need to get too excited. Its only a few months away. You'd probably miss your WRX anyways.

[mokinbird87]

cant stop thinking about a monster wrx along with having a hybrid/diesel daily lol... but i dont think a wrx is exclusive enough to be a weekend car though, i rather drive it everyday (especially now it doesnt matter how many miles i put on her). arghh choices choices choices. i guess it all comes down to how awesome the fr-s will be.

[mokinbird87]

Originally Posted by chulooz

You have a paid off wrx? Spend ~$10K on whatever you want to make it a capable track car, then spend ~$10K on a decent daily. This saves the most money.

Or check out the driving experiences in proper 993/964, they seem to fulfill all of your needs. Its expensive ownership, but its the upkeep of an iconic sports car.

this! i have been in a 993, and although i LOVE the way it drives and the way it looks, it definitely shows its age. i complain enough about keeping up with my wrx so i dont think the 2nd car should be the headache car.

[mokinbird87]

Originally Posted by SteelReign

For those insecure moments, use some high tints! but really, the mx-5 is really lacking in the practicality department. Its a total deal-breaker for me, along with the S2000.

I like the idea of the RSX type S, but living in a theft-prone city, it would get snatched in no time. Practicality of a hatch is great, its a "luxury" car and it can turn fun once V-TEC kicks in yo.

What year is the WRX? it seems like it could be pretty exclusive, practical and fun. The FR-S/BRZ might be a good option once its on sale. Until then, no need to get too excited. Its only a few months away. You'd probably miss your WRX anyways.

this is what i`m mostly afraid of... my bugeye has served me so well over the years.

[Deslock]

I wouldn't worry about the FT86 being too hard-core since the ride ought to be at least as comfortable as the other cars on your list. It also ought to have enough pull to get uphill, but you will need to downshift to pass.

Since you mentioned that you'd like something with "more usable torque" than the hard top NC, note that with 200 pounds of driver the FT86 will have only a ~2% better ratio of engine torque to weight (peak power to weight will be ~14% better).

Don't know what your budget is, but check out this blog post about hidden costs of racing. A WRX will be a more expensive (and less fun) track toy than something like an MX5.

I've had an MX5 for a few years. Only one time did someone (a coworker) make cracks about it being underpowered and effeminate. And that guy is a moron. Everyone else has offered nothing but admiration for its capabilities, and understands it's a true driving machine.

But you also mentioned the lack of rear seats bothers you, so even if the NC is big enough for you, it's probably not a good choice.

Anyway, there are vs threads for most of those vehicles.

BTW, thanks for posting this in the correct sub-forum.

[mokinbird87]

Originally Posted by glorydays

whoa whoa whoa... i take offense! treat it right and it will reciprocate bro! Plus, nothing is more manly than a miata. It says "I am comfortable with my sexuality. My nuts are truly bigger than yours." just dont drive with any male passengers. People might get the wrong idea...

man you have an fc... mucho respect . as far as my reliability comment on mazda, i`m sure you take care of your car WAY better than i do. my subaru has been a tank despite all the abuse from me and i feel like if i treat a mazda/porsche/etc the same way it wont be able to handle it.

[mokinbird87]

Originally Posted by Deslock

I wouldn't worry about the FT86 being too hard-core since the ride ought to be at least as comfortable as the other cars on your list. It also ought to have enough pull to get uphill, but you will need to downshift to pass.

Since you mentioned that you'd like something with "more usable torque" than the hard top NC, note that with 200 pounds of driver the FT86 will have only a ~2% better ratio of engine torque to weight (peak power to weight will be ~14% better).

Don't know what your budget is, but check out this blog post about hidden costs of racing. A WRX will be a more expensive (and less fun) track toy than something like an MX5.

I've had an MX5 for a few years. Only one time did someone (a coworker) make cracks about it being underpowered and effeminate. And that guy is a moron. Everyone else has offered nothing but admiration for its capabilities, and understands it's a true driving machine.

But you also mentioned the lack of rear seats bothers you, so even if the NC is big enough for you, it's probably not a good choice.

Anyway, there are vs threads for most of those vehicles.

BTW, thanks for posting this in the correct sub-forum.

the main reason why i am so interested in a miata/fr-s is because i went to a skip barber racing school open house session and got on the track as a passenger on road atlanta in their miata cup racing cars (nc). i learned new laws of physics that day and truly believe that a miata will smoke a wrx in a corner no matter how much suspension work you have on the wrx.

powerband of the nc miata doesnt bother me at all in daily driving conditions... in fact i actually prefer it than my wrx. my wrx with its turbo powerband and the gear ratio doesnt allow cruising; you`re either driving like too fast too furious or moving extremely slow, so the fr-s in reality might be a lot better than my prediction. and if it indeed comes with a similar powerband as the NC and gives me two more seats (not to mention that the fr-s looks more agressive), i think we have a winner.

[fatoni]

the c6 is so much more car than any other on the list. from my experience (probably what anyone can tell you from common sense), it will out run, out stop and out turn any of those previously mentioned cars. i dont even think the build quality is bad, its just put together in an ugly kind of way. and the pushrod thing isnt a mistake. what chevy has done is make a motor that is light and low. its makes the most of technology more than any other car on the list by a long shot

[ryude]

You got a point about the powerband, but my GTI compared to say a k20a is all about where you shift at. You can drive the k20 with half-throttle and shift at 4 grand and it feels natural. If you do the same thing in the GTI (or any small turbo car), you'll be venting boost and the car will buck each shift. Just look at all the neon srt4 owners...

For cruising, I much prefer a v6 or v8. Torque, but it's N/A so you don't have to worry about throttle input (as much).