My Test Drive Impressions

[SOneThreeCoupe]

Preface: this is long (scan to end for TL;DR) and I've underlined certain words in case you're looking for steering feel, ride quality, engine power, transmission feel, clutch feel, etc. My day job means I drive classic Porsches every day, and occasionally drive 993s/996s/997s. My dailies are a Mini Countryman Cooper S, Jeep Wrangler and '95 Range Rover Classic and my occasional weekend car is a '92 240SX that weighs less than 2250lbs. Previous cars include an e30 325i, E36 325iS and NA6 Miata.

I drove a manual FR-S a couple weeks back. I liked it well enough, but it wasn't quite up to my expectations as far as certain reviewers made it seem. The dealership had added TSW Interlagos wheels in 18x8 with 225/40R18 Pirelli P Zero Nero All Season tires, TRD exhaust, and a tint job to bring the total to $29,xxx. In addition to the near-constant modifications to manual cars prior to sale to increase their profit margin, the dealership also expressed negativity at people wanting to test drive the FR-S with a manual transmission. The word “joy ride” was mentioned by either a salesman or a sales manager while I walked by, and I overheard that they didn't want any more test drives that day... piss poor response to a car that enthusiasts are actually interested in. If it wasn't for Jim, the salesman who I worked with, I would've stopped, told them that they just lost a sale, and driven 30 miles south to the other closest dealership. This was a SoCal inland dealership, and one of the highest-volume FR-S dealers.

Compared to my S13 when it was nearly stock, the FR-S is far more playful. The S13 defaulted to understeer, even with trail braking; the FR-S defaults to neutral with perhaps slight oversteer, especially under trail braking. It's more willing to change line mid-corner and the steering is as direct as others have noted. However, that same direct steering doesn't provide the same level of feedback as that in my wife's Mini Cooper S Countryman; I am willing to accept that the feedback may have been spoiled by the wheel/tire combination, but the OD is within .1" between the two sizes, and the TSW/Pirelli combination is within a pound of the factory wheel/tire combination. I must admit serious disappointment with the steering feedback.

The FR-S, and keep in mind that I've only driven one with the larger aftermarket wheel/tire combination, rides very firmly- firmer than I was expecting. The 225/40R18s have .5" less sidewall and are slightly less pinched than the stock 215/45R17s so that explains some of the firmness, but otherwise the car isn't set up for SoCal roads. I was expecting more compliance and am trying to get a test drive in a car equipped with the factory wheel/tire combination for a comparison. The ride quality was similar to my S13 with 9k/7k springs over double-adjustable Konis and with 245/40s. Edit: After a little research, these tires do have a reputation for being firm over broken pavement, but that doesn't explain how firm the suspension was.

Though the suspension was overly firm, it was fairly well-controlled. I didn't have a chance to drive hard, and we had at least 500lbs on board, but I pushed it a little and was reasonably impressed with the damping, especially in the rear where it usually is skimped on. However, the excessive firmness is likely due to valving the dampers to feel sporty; luckily Toyota didn't go with the BMW "walking on tiptoes" firmness.

Shift action and feel were superb. Nicely spaced ratios (up to my test drive max of 60mph), gates well-placed and unobtrusive, and the shifter's mechanical action was very good. Granted, it's no new S2000 feel, but it was certainly on par with a 70k mile car I drove for a couple days a while back. The clutch is too soft, but then again, I haven't driven anything with a hydraulic clutch in a while. It's not that it wasn't feelsome, it certainly was, it just was too soft- I prefer something heavier.

The engine is powerful enough for the application, though I never revved it past 4500 and into the actual horsepower range. I've no gripes with it, and the torque is acceptable. It made decent enough noise through the TRD exhaust, but the TRD exhaust is a drony, miserable piece of crap. Even the salesman had to voice his displeasure at the tiring booming. Good noise under full throttle, though. Can't argue with the efficiency, as many are reporting 30+mpg on the highway.

Seats are supportive and comfortable. Ergonomics are good. There's plenty of headroom for my 6' self, and I have a long torso. I didn't bother with the back seat, as it'd be for my dogs or for emergency transportation of my friends.

I'm on the fence- I like the car, but I don't love it, and the lack of feedback as well as the horrid ride mean that I'd have to modify the car immediately with revalved Bilsteins by Shaikh at Fat Cat Motorsports as well as replacing the FLCAs with something less compliant in the hopes of creating feel.

After a week of thinking about it, I wrote the following- I'm honestly not sure what I think of it now. The more I think about it, the more I realize how displeased I was with the ride and steering feedback.

Most magazines are packed for space and don't bother explaining past "firm ride," and most people don't live near the pock-marked and ridged twisties I do. Most people also equate firm with sporty, which is a very common misconception. This car is firm but not crashy, it won't jar your fillings out but what it will do is slow you down over the rough stuff. The rough stuff is the fun stuff, and moving quickly over that stuff separates the men from the boys.

The steering feel just isn't that good. It's a lot better than the majority of what's out there currently, but that's not enough for me. My guess, based on the pictures of the LCA bushings, is that there's a little too much NVH isolation, which absolutely kills feedback. Caster's a little on the light side, too. For the vast majority of people, especially those coming from AWD and FWD cars, and those who have a daily commute on the highway, the car probably has great feel. For me, it needs serious work as my car's redeem themselves cresting a dusty hill with exposure on each side and I need to know exactly what they're doing at every moment.

I was psyched and ready to buy one, but I need to justify the price increase of ~$2200 just to make it a decent driver's car... and I don't know if I can.

TL;DR- If you're coming from an econobox, any other Scion, a pig, or the vast majority of vehicles on the road, this car feels light, lithe and sparkling in the twisties, as well as sporty. The engine/transmission combination could be incredible when on serious boil. It's a great sports car for people weaned on modern cars lacking a little chutzpah.

If you're coming from a Miata, MX-5, or something with great steering feel and a decent ride through the twisty bits, or have experience with properly damped cars, or you've had cars that talked to you through the wheel and let you know exactly what the front end was doing whenever your fingertips were touching the wheel, you will be very disappointed and you should not believe the hype. As it is, the car is NOT Toyobaru's gift to drivers. It's a great car, but a mediocre sports car- just on the lack of steering feel alone.

[FRiSson]

There have been threads on this before. The problem with the FR-S is that it is a car you need to get to know. Unlike most cars, that reveal themselves in the first few hours, the FR-S learns along with its driver. You cannot accurately assess the excellence of its seats, the tractability of its engine, the amazing responsiveness of its steering to your inputs and the general excellence of the suspension on a test drive. You are selling yourself short, if you walk away from the test driving thinking that you know the car.

[jarviz]

no offense but i definitely didn't read your whole post, just the TL;DR. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not sure if you're trolling or just looking to get flamed. ton's of people here are coming from miata's, s2000's, SX's and Zx's, 3 and m series, even caymans and lotuses and are loving the way the FRS and BRZ feels. Not really sure why you're comparing the power to an s2000 though, since that's a 35k car. a turbo or a supercharger can easily fix that problem for you and it still wouldn't make up the 10k difference. you're only paying 25k for an FRS and you're getting a hell of a ride for that price. that's why there is so much hype. There's no other car in the market right now that can offer the fun and performance that the FRS/BRZ's can, especially not at such a low cost.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

You cannot accurately assess the excellence of its seats, the tractability of its engine, the amazing responsiveness of its steering to your inputs and the general excellence of the suspension on a test drive. You are selling yourself short, if you walk away from the test driving thinking that you know the car.

I disagree. I can easily determine if a car is not for me during an average-length test drive. But if nothing is glaringly obvious (that I dislike), then I'll admit that a little more seat time might be a good idea to help sway me one way or another. As long as I have a chance to drive a car in various conditions (back roads & highways, smooth roads & rough roads, uphill & downhill, straight roads & curvy roads, etc...) then I'll be 100% certain if I have any interest in actually buying the car.

[jflogerzi]

I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading what you wrote. Its nice to see someone with a keen eye and have faults with the car. Anyone who says this car is perfect is blind. I came from a semi econ box 2008 VW Jetta 2.5 SE. For me even in stock form, the FR-S is a big upgrade in the areas that count. My advice if you buy an FR-S, get one at MSRP so you can use that extra bit for extras and mods. I know its hard, but they are out there. About the clutch many people share your same opinion, but if you search, there is an easy DYI guide on how to adjust the clutch.

[dem00n]

Everyone's loving it, guess he just wants to much out of a car under 30 grand...

[dsgerbc]

TSW Interlagos? This one, in +35 offset?
If yes - you do realize that your opinion about steering feedback is pretty much worthless, right? Lower offset + all season tires both kill steering feedback. Go drive a stock one and come back after that.

[4U-GSE]

It sounds like that dealership really made a mess of the car with those modifications (excluding the TRD exhaust... i guess). I would recommend driving a stock FR-S or BRZ with the original wheels and tires and let us know what you think. The car is for driving fun. Putting larger wheels and wide tires is specifically what Toyota wanted to avoid with this car (Actually one of the three design limitations Toyota put on the car).

Also, without those mods you end up saving close to $5000. That $5000 can be much better spent once you get to know the car better and can make an educated decision on where to improve certain characteristics of the car based on your driving style.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

TSW Interlagos? This one, in +35 offset?
If yes - you do realize that your opinion about steering feedback is pretty much worthless, right? Lower offset + all season tires both kill steering feedback. Go drive a stock one and come back after that.

Second this. It's always interesting to get different perspectives, even if we don't like what we hear

[Bristecom]

Those low profile tires/big wheels would almost certainly be the reason for your ride harshness complaints. If you get a stock car and put more comfortable tires on it, I don't think you would complain about it anymore.

But the lack of steering feedback was also my biggest disappointment from the test drives; although, realistically, no new car is going to have as good of feedback as your old sports cars so I can learn to live with it.

[nedmundo]

I only had a short test drive in an FR-S, and I was disappointed with the lack of steering feedback too, especially the dead spot on center. As you say, however, it's still better than most new cars. At least grip levels come through the wheel, and I absolutely loved the car as a whole.

Unfortunately, with the switch to electric assist, great steering feel is being sacrificed on the altar of fuel economy and packaging efficiency. Even BMW can't get it right. The only EPS system I've really liked is in the new Focus ST, because it has strong on-center feel that provides a sense of connection absent from most cars with EPS. I hope engineers can figure out how to infuse EPS systems with old-school feedback, but I'm afraid the numbness will become the "new normal," and we'll be stuck with it.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by nedmundo

The only EPS system I've really liked is in the new Focus ST

Hm. I drove my friend's one and wasn't impressed. It felt empty.

[frosty86]

1/10 for the effort OP.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by frosty86

1/10 for the effort OP.

It's amazing that anyone who posts a review or an opinion that isn't 100% in favor of the car is automatically labeled as a troll. Actually, it's not amazing, it's very sad. Personally, I see nothing at all trollish in the OP's words.