CAR Article: Subaru BRZ (2012) - more on the FT-86's shy sister car

[Hachiroku]

Via CAR

Since the joint venture between Toyota and Subaru was announced in 2009, we've seen four concept cars from Toyota of its version, the FT-86/Scion FR-S. But barring some unfortunate-looking Impreza based engineering mules, we've yet to see the Subaru edition.

That situation didn't change at the recent 2011 Frankfurt Motor Show, where Subaru once again exhibited the rear-drive platform of what we now know will be called the BRZ with a transparent bodyshell rather than production panels.

But Toshio Masuda, Subaru product planning senior general manager and the man in charge of developing the BRZ, gave CAR some extra details on the upcoming mystery coupe…

Is Toyota or Subaru leading development?

If you want to see mild-mannered Subaru executives frown, feel free to mention rumours that Toyota is taking the lead in development work of the BRZ/FT-86. Masashi Uemura, Subaru's deputy general manager of corporate communications, emphatically denied that the upcoming sports cars were Toyota-led, pointing out that platform and drivetrain development, production engineering and final assembly of both cars was handled by Subaru at Subaru facilities.

To prove his point, he showed video footage of FHI boss Ikuo Mori attending a winter test session of BRZ prototypes at Subaru's Bifuka proving grounds in Hokkaido. In terms of motor show noise Subaru may well seem to be a silent partner to Toyota, but the firm insists it has played a major role in developing the BRZ/FT-86 twins.

Why isn't the BRZ all-wheel drive?

The initial concept for the FT-86 and BRZ came from Toyota, which wanted a rear-drive compact sports car. But although Subaru have a strong history of all-paw performance cars, it has no plans to build a four-wheel drive version of the BRZ. Instead, Masuda-san and his team have treated the BRZ as a challenge in vehicle dynamics. Developing optimum traction, power output and handling for the rear-drive BRZ provides lessons which Subaru's engineers can apply to its regular all-wheel drive models.

And before you ask, no, Masuda-san says Subaru have no plans to add a turbocharger to the BRZ's direct-injection FA20 2.0-litre flat-four engine.

Will the BRZ platform underpin other Subaru models?

The 'Boxer Sports Car Architecture' platform is bespoke for the BRZ and FT-86 and won't be shared with future Subaru models, officials tell CAR. However, lessons from developing the platform, with its super-low 450mm centre of gravity, could well appear in the next generation of Subaru vehicles.

Is the BRZ going to look like the FT-86?

For a company showing a see-through display model, Subaru representatives remained frustratingly opaque about what the BRZ will look like when it's unveiled at the Tokyo motor show in December 2011.

However, given the general shape of the 'BRZ Prologue' model and shared production of both the BRZ and FT-86 on Subaru's Gunma production plant in Japan, sensible money would be on a fairly similar glasshouse and central body for both models, with brand specific front and rear styling.
Does the BRZ mean we might see Subaru back in motorsports?

Subaru fans have been mourning the firm's withdrawal from the WRC in late-2008, and lamented the works rally link to roadgoing performance Subarus. Although the firm's customer teams have continued to wave the Subaru flag, most notably in the PWRC (which Subaru driver Hayden Paddon won in 2011), at the Nurburgring 24hr race (where a WRX STI finished 21st and won the SP3T class) and Japan's Super GT 300 class (where R&D Sport compete with a Super GT Legacy B4 saloon).

Earlier in his career, Masuda-san had worked in the UK with Prodrive on motorsport and performance projects such as the Impreza STI 22-B limited edition rally replica. Would we see the BRZ appearing in Super GT, FIA GT3, GT4 or a similar motorsports role?

'If you're interested in motorsports, you should definitely come and see us at the Tokyo motor show' was the grinning engineer's reply…

The Subaru BRZ is scheduled to be officially unveiled in production form at the 2011 Tokyo motor show on November 30, 2011, going on sale in spring 2012. We can only hope the late-blooming production BRZ is worth the wait.

[4agze]

And before you ask, no, Masuda-san says Subaru have no plans to add a turbocharger to the BRZ's direct-injection FA20 2.0-litre flat-four engine.

So its not an FB20?

[Ryephile]

Yea I saw that too. First time I've seen "FA20" mentioned. It could be a misquote or typo, but then again it could be the designation for this Subaru FB20+D4S+Yamaha setup.

The whole article kinda reads like a Subaru-pleaded face-save attempt to put more credit to Subaru. IMO it's their own fault for only having the fake transparent "Prologue".

It is interesting to see another figure for the CoG: 450mm = 17.7"

[Dark]

I believe it's a new code name for the engine because it's not really the FB in new impreza.

[madfast]

Yeah subaru already officially named it the FA. it looks like the FB on the outside, but internally it's supposed to have a new bore x stroke (rumored to be 86 x 86).

http://www.media.subaru-global.com/e...z11_09_13e.pdf

[chulooz]

"platform and drivetrain development, production engineering and final assembly of both cars was handled by Subaru at Subaru facilities."

I wonder how fanboiez feel about this?

[Dave-ROR]

We already knew it was being built by Subaru. Not sure I believe that all of the drivetrain development was by subaru, but the platform was stated as such years ago.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by chulooz

"platform and drivetrain development, production engineering and final assembly of both cars was handled by Subaru at Subaru facilities."

I wonder how fanboiez feel about this?

two sides to every coin:

The FT-86 will be built at Fuji Heavy’s Subaru, and when I mention that, the engineer’s pride shifts into low gear – for extra revs. Tada quickly explains that this is just contract production, and it’s the same as “when we make cars at Central Motors or Kanto Auto Works.” Both are separate companies, but they are also part of the greater Toyota empire. Toyota owns a good chunk of Fuji Heavy, so Subaru is part of the family – in a way.

Subaru will produce its own version, probably called the BRZ. Both companies also developed the car together, and that must have been an interesting exercise. Recalls Tada:

“The first year was actually quite tough. The character and processes of the two companies are quite different. In the beginning, we sat down and decided who does what. That didn’t work out very well, because of the cultural differences between the companies. When people started to become more interested in the car itself, people from both sides ended up becoming one team. In the end, it wasn’t so much Toyota doing this and Subaru doing that, but people working together with one goal.”

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...hief-engineer/

[chulooz]

You think Toshio Masuda would lie like that right in front of their joint company? If you don't believe the senior general manager then keep on speculating.


And this is the auto-industry, not a coin flip.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by chulooz

You think Toshio Masuda would lie like that right in front of their joint company? If you don't believe the senior general manager then keep on speculating.


And this is the auto-industry, not a coin flip.

no, he's not lying. he's embellishing the truth. yes subaru will actually build it, and yes subaru will do the development for the production process. but at the same time Tada says that, that is contract production. so is Tada lying? you be the judge...

Tada gives much more credit that subaru does:

When people started to become more interested in the car itself, people from both sides ended up becoming one team. In the end, it wasn’t so much Toyota doing this and Subaru doing that, but people working together with one goal.

on the flip side, everything that comes from subaru reeks of insecurity like the little brother who lives in his big bro's shadow...

[chulooz]

Tada is not lying because he is not claiming the opposite of Masuda.

He says they have worked together (which I believe to be true to an extent) while Masuda credits Subaru for platform and drivetrain development, specifically.

Subaru in Toyota's shadow?
When it comes to performance vehicles in the US Toyota has been in one of the darkest corners. Quite a shame to see the biggest auto maker without a single true performance car since the '05 MRS, and before that the Supra in '98.
Subaru has nothing to be insecure about.

[MiguelAE86]

Originally Posted by Hachiroku

Via CAR

Earlier in his career, Masuda-san had worked in the UK with Prodrive on motorsport and performance projects such as the Impreza STI 22-B limited edition rally replica. Would we see the BRZ appearing in Super GT, FIA GT3, GT4 or a similar motorsports role?

'If you're interested in motorsports, you should definitely come and see us at the Tokyo motor show' was the grinning engineer's reply…

The Subaru BRZ is scheduled to be officially unveiled in production form at the 2011 Tokyo motor show on November 30, 2011, going on sale in spring 2012. We can only hope the late-blooming production BRZ is worth the wait.

:happy0180:

[madfast]

Originally Posted by chulooz

He says they have worked together (which I believe to be true to an extent) while Masuda credits Subaru for platform and drivetrain development, specifically.

to an extent? i guess you're one of those people that believe that subaru developed the whole car while toyota merely styled it, and took all the credit...

lets examine some facts:

-the engine uses D-4S, a toyota system.
-the car is code named FT86 which harks back to the AE86
-the car will use Yamaha tuning, another company that toyota has a stake in, and that is indicative of toyota involvement
-the engine is a "NEW" engine. its not an off the shelf subaru engine. in other words, its based on a subaru engine, probably the FB, but it had to be "improved" for use in this car.
-its RWD, a toyota AE86 trait, not a subaru trait
-manual AND automatic tranny is rumored to be Aisin, another company part owned by toyota. subaru uses JATCO automatics and CVTs, not Aisin automatics

the list goes on. faced with those facts, who can honestly say subaru developed the car themselves? and im talking specifically about the engine/drivetrain. it was a joint effort but imo we all get the feeling it's much more of a toyota project with subaru help, than a subaru project with toyota help.

imo people who fail to see this just arent looking at it objectively...

[chulooz]

Yes, I still believe him to an extent, he was so general there is not much concrete evidence to believe yet. But no, I love the collaboration, for years my Toyota and Subaru have lived side-by-side, and I am not a die-hard fan of any brand really.

-Toyota's code name is ft86 (not subaru's)
-Still very limited word from Yamaha (Secrecy is not a bad thing though)
-While the engine is new, horizontally opposed engines are Subaru's stomping grounds I promise there name and engine code will be on it (FA20)
-RWD is NOT specifically a Toyota AE86 trait, and subaru has had concepts and test with RWD.
-Who provides the tranny is nearly irrelevant to platform/drivetrain development, how its made is what is important.

Lets just wait and see. I predict that most parts will be stamped with Subaru's companies, dont forget who is showing you all of the drivetrain components for this model.

And IMHO all of this "re-incarnation of the AE86" is just hype/BS to get attention. This car may share common traits, but taking free rides on the legacy of another car is cheap marketing. And when Subaru says they played an integral role in this cars mechanics, how can Toyota decide that it is the "spiritual successor to the 86"?