extra fee!

[kiddo]

Hi,

I just got the paper work done for my BRZ, but there are "admin fee $199", "lobali/Nitrogen/tire guard $399", "Env. recovery fee $29.2" added to the invoice!

The web site nor the salesman has mentioned anything about them at the beginning, now all of the sudden it is $ 630 extra!

Are all these fee/cost mandatory?

Your advice is much appreciated.

[Dusky]

Some members were lucky to have it removed, but majority of the dealers quickly realized that they can get away with it due to the overwhelming demand. The nitrogen, Tire guard and globali can be negotiated ... Not so much with the government fees.

[FR-S,M.D.]

$199 admin fee is reasonable. These are usually around $400, but you can talk it down to half or less. The nitrogen stuff and the etching is BS, you're supposed to tell them right off the bat that you want none of the stuff. Government fees are mandatory.

[Ahz]

They're all bullshit.

Subaru here tried to add $800 in fees and when I told then no way, they admitted up-front that if I don't pay the full fees, the next guy will.

Scion tried the same thing, but waived all the fees when I threatened to walk.

EDIT: No admin fee is reasonable. You're likely already overpaying by paying MSRP since it's such an in-demand car. Not to mention we're stuck paying double for freight and PDI vs the Americans, of which the dealer gets a nice cut.

[VENOM~]

I asked about this as well. Pretty much majority of dealers will tell you tough..

said if you dont like it, the next guy willing will pay.

probably true considering I guess nobody is getting their car till December or later with such outrageous demand.

[kiddo]

thanks to all. I got $500 off from the MSRP originally, and I think they put those bull shit back to make up the "lose".

[CrazyWookiee]

They pulled those numbers on me, but in the end I was able to get them waved. totalled 800 extra.

[Slartibartfast]

Global-I is an option... It's a pretty good program thought. It typically sells for about $300. Nitro I like. Tire guard I can't comment on as I don't know much about your dealers program. The 29.20 you can blame Dalton Mcguinty for, its a "tire stewardship" to pay for future disposal of the tires. The $199 admin seems reasonable. My dealership does not have admin fees, but if you got $500 off MSRP, then you've got a good deal there. Even with the extras. You definitely haven't been ripped off.

[BRZranger]

Been there, done that; all because I was too excited to buy a car. You can get some of them waived before signing. Too late to waive them now. live and learn.

Not necessarily shady, I've seen dealers do a $2k "misc Fee", which the buyer paid and later asked about. The dealer answered, "you should have read the paperwork." No recourse unless you want to go to court.

[JoeyV]

Originally Posted by kiddo

thanks to all. I got $500 off from the MSRP originally, and I think they put those bull shit back to make up the "lose".

I work in car sales at Mazda and this is exactly why we do it (I am not a fan of the idea, but sales managers oblige us to do it). We tack on a certain amount to the bill simply because we know that people will try to negotiate, and when we give them a "discount" we fall back to full MSRP. Which, by the way, is a very fair price.

For cars like this one, there is only about $1500 profit. On that profit, 20% goes to the sales person ($300 - income tax) which might seem like a lot, but considering he spends about 8 hours working on your file, may have to have 2-3 visits and discussion with you, and probably only sells about 2 cars per week, while talking with at least 10-15, it really isn't that much. We're now down to $1200. The sales manager has to be payed, as well as the general manager. The 15 or so guys that work on the car to get it ready (clean it, apply/remove stickers, installing options) also need to be paid. The dealer actually makes only about $200 profit on each car, which is nothing when you consider the operation costs of a dealership.

Back on topic, the environmental fees are charged by the government, they can't be taken out. Filling tires with nitrogen is the "normal" process, and if you don't know about it, you get charged. Same goes for lock nuts.

Basically, you have to ask for a pricing break down before you agree to sign the paperwork. That way you get to see everything they charge you. Even better would be to build the car carefully on the website, and make sure to include the taxes in the pricing, and then walk in and tell them you priced it out online. This leaves them in a place where they have to show you the "real" price.

Also, and I'm only speaking for Quebec because I don't know if it's like this in all provinces, but "administration fees" are illegal. Everything must be included in the advertised price (website) with the exclusion of provincial government fees (tire tax, A/C tax, environmental tax, etc.)


In the worst case scenario, head on over to Car Cost Canada and pay the $70 fee to price out the car and see for yourself that the full MSRP isn't that bad. They even recommend paying 4% over cost price which is generally just a few hundred under MSRP. (this leaves just enough money so the dealer doesn't "lose" anything on the sale.)

I hope this helps some people in not getting caught with extra fees, but also in understanding that full MSRP is the fairest price because it is set by the manufacturer where they believe a reasonable profit and reasonable price can be made.

[delsol97]

The would be "outrageous" demand for the Chevy Sonic if each dealer were only allocated 4 a year too...

[Dimman]

Admin fees are utter bullshit.

What other product do you pay the seller extra fucking money for selling you something? Do you but a $1000 computer then have to pay the store $20 on top of it just because they SOLD it to you and have some paperwork to do (you know, their job)? Fuck no.

Admin fee is no different.

There are NO poor dealers.

[JoeyV]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Admin fees are utter bullshit.

What other product do you pay the seller extra fucking money for selling you something? Do you but a $1000 computer then have to pay the store $20 on top of it just because they SOLD it to you and have some paperwork to do (you know, their job)? Fuck no.

Admin fee is no different.

There are NO poor dealers.

This is true. However, when you go to Best Buy and pick up that new computer, you also don't go and try to negotiate the price. You just pay the price written on the sticker and call it a day.

There are no poor dealers, that is true, but that doesn't mean they can afford to just give the cars away and not make any money...that's not how a business is run. Also keep in mind, that if it wasn't for the service department (garage), dealerships would close down because they make little to no money in sales. The sales department is only there to build a client base and a good image for the dealership so clients come back to get their service done there.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by JoeyV

This is true. However, when you go to Best Buy and pick up that new computer, you also don't go and try to negotiate the price. You just pay the price written on the sticker and call it a day.

There are no poor dealers, that is true, but that doesn't mean they can afford to just give the cars away and not make any money...that's not how a business is run. Also keep in mind, that if it wasn't for the service department (garage), dealerships would close down because they make little to no money in sales. The sales department is only there to build a client base and a good image for the dealership so clients come back to get their service done there.

Not charging a bullshit 'admin fee' is pretty far from giving the cars away. Not a single other business does this.

The other issue is the 'pre-optioned' cars with ridiculous charges like the nitrogen filled tires. Best Buy won't fight and lie to me if I want to order a specific option set they don't have in stock. They also don't install $90 'static control decals' (or some other made up BS) on everyin-stock PC.

Sales make a shit-ton of money for dealers. Don't be fooled by the marginal 'profit' they make comparing retail to 'invoice' pricing. Look into things like hold-back and carrying bonuses. These were strategies that were put in place after the internet allowed people to look up invoice pricing. So what has happened now is that invoice shows higher (less sales 'profit' in the traditional sense) but the dealers get paid extra by the manufacturer for selling the cars.

So while they only show a $1500 'profit' on the car, the dealership actually earns closer to $4500.

Don't get sucked in by their spin.