Hankook RS4 heat cycle

[CB750F]

Dear grassroots professionals,

I do a little track, 4 times a yr, maybe, & I do autoX many times a yr.
For track, I suck, always close to last in my class but I have fun.
For autoX, well, I run middle pack in my class but twice came in 3rd.
Also, very important, I just started doing this 5 yrs ago & I'm just over 60.
What I would like to know is, who has experienced heat cycle decline & how?

My last track day, last yr, was on a new circuit for me. In the morning sessions I was pleasantly surprised as I was faster then someone else who is alwasy a little faster then me. this person has much more experience & a few yrs older. My first afternoon session was absolute chaos as I came into corners & had understeer. My laps were 2 seconds slower. At this point, checking others, they were actually doing better laps then their morning sessions. My tires are also 'old' about 5 yrs old. Obvioulsly I'm not pushing hard enough...

So, for those who experienced heat cycle collapse, was this your experience?

Also back to RS4 or Falken AZENIS RT660, or ???

My RS4's seem to have still some thread left, so I can still run them but it will reduce the pleasure with less grip... my issue.. To buy or run another yr, if I can even buy any?

Tks


Tks

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by CB750F

Dear grassroots professionals,

I do a little track, 4 times a yr, maybe, & I do autoX many times a yr.
For track, I suck, always close to last in my class but I have fun.
For autoX, well, I run middle pack in my class but twice came in 3rd.
Also, very important, I just started doing this 5 yrs ago & I'm just over 60.
What I would like to know is, who has experienced heat cycle decline & how?

My last track day, last yr, was on a new circuit for me. In the morning sessions I was pleasantly surprised as I was faster then someone else who is alwasy a little faster then me. this person has much more experience & a few yrs older. My first afternoon session was absolute chaos as I came into corners & had understeer. My laps were 2 seconds slower. At this point, checking others, they were actually doing better laps then their morning sessions. My tires are also 'old' about 5 yrs old. Obvioulsly I'm not pushing hard enough...

So, for those who experienced heat cycle collapse, was this your experience?

Also back to RS4 or Falken AZENIS RT660, or ???

My RS4's seem to have still some thread left, so I can still run them but it will reduce the pleasure with less grip... my issue.. To buy or run another yr, if I can even buy any?

Tks


Tks

Just because the tires have tread does not mean they are not heat cycled out. If its the same tires I am surprised there is any tread left. How many sessions (track) and how many Auto-X runs are on these tires. Pretty sure its time to get new tires. 660's will be faster but not as durable. RS4's are decent with times and grip but not nearly as fast as 660's but will last much longer and stay more consistent time and grip wise through the entire life of the tire. 660's will fall off as they get more heat cycles on them.

[strat61caster]

That ^ how much do you want to spend.

On Bridgestone re71r they didn’t feel that bad at first, it felt like there was a good time out there but in hindsight there wasn’t, the grip was gone. When they’re really far gone they feel awful, kind of like your later track sessions, just messy and difficult to balance. Go get some new shoes.

[EndlessAzure]

5 years is pretty old for commuter tires, let alone track tires that have seen many events. Rubber itself may also be aging out as well (in addition to heat cycling)

[Westen86]

Continental Extreme Contact Force.

Durable like an RS4, Possibly a bit faster.

[NoHaveMSG]

Age was far more of an issue then heat cycles, I don't think the RS4 really cycles out.

The 660's will wear much much faster. I got 4 days on mine and they were flipped after two, rotated after every day.

[CB750F]

Thank for the replies.

Just found an article comparing RS4 & Conti's.
So, Continental seem to be 'better' but at a price.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...0tw-tire-test/

Considering my pace.... gaining a second won't help...
I'll find the best price 200tw tire.

BTW, Auto-X a yrs, 10, track days 4, that's about average.
Just crazy as from one session to the other they just turned to crap.

Much appreciated guys, tks again.
.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CB750F

Thank for the replies.

Just found an article comparing RS4 & Conti's.
So, Continental seem to be 'better' but at a price.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...0tw-tire-test/

Considering my pace.... gaining a second won't help...
I'll find the best price 200tw tire.

BTW, Auto-X a yrs, 10, track days 4, that's about average.
Just crazy as from one session to the other they just turned to crap.

Much appreciated guys, tks again.
.

Maybe look at the dunlop Z3.

[RedReplicant]

From one session to another on used tires it sounds more like there was a big swing in track / environment temperature and hot pressures got out of control.

[CB750F]

Nada.
It was October, cool, checked my pressure, after lunch break & others were doing fine.

[jflogerzi]

Just old Tires. I think RS4 will be your best bet.

[Lynxis]

I ran through a set of Hankook RS3s a few years ago that I was using as dedicated track and autocross tires with approximately similar amount of use that you reported. ~4 track days and 10 autocross events (at least 60 runs) per year. It should be noted that the RS4 uses the same rubber compound from the RS3 so wear and heat tolerance would be approximately equal.

I bought the tires the fall before the RS4s hit market, and they sat in my shed all winter before getting mounted in the spring. The first two seasons I used them they were very good, no complaints at all. I won my local autocross series championship both years on these tires. 3rd year however, they had notably fallen off. The biggest issue was getting enough heat into the tires to get any grip, a situation that was especially clear during autocross in the spring and fall when temperatures are cooler. This was despite the fact the season started with 4/32nds of treat and ended with 2/32nds of tread, they weren't worth trying to use for another season even if they had the tread to make it.



Just bringing this up because if you can't wear out the tread before you heat cycle the tires, you're probably farther ahead going with a faster tire that won't last as long anyways. I'm considering trying the 660 this year because of this.

[CB750F]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

I ran through a set of Hankook RS3s a few years ago that I was using as dedicated track and autocross tires with approximately similar amount of use that you reported. ~4 track days and 10 autocross events (at least 60 runs) per year. It should be noted that the RS4 uses the same rubber compound from the RS3 so wear and heat tolerance would be approximately equal.

I bought the tires the fall before the RS4s hit market, and they sat in my shed all winter before getting mounted in the spring. The first two seasons I used them they were very good, no complaints at all. I won my local autocross series championship both years on these tires. 3rd year however, they had notably fallen off. The biggest issue was getting enough heat into the tires to get any grip, a situation that was especially clear during autocross in the spring and fall when temperatures are cooler. This was despite the fact the season started with 4/32nds of treat and ended with 2/32nds of tread, they weren't worth trying to use for another season even if they had the tread to make it.



Just bringing this up because if you can't wear out the tread before you heat cycle the tires, you're probably farther ahead going with a faster tire that won't last as long anyways. I'm considering trying the 660 this year because of this.

Lynxis,

I thought about this too, just get a faster wearing tires. As I mentioned, I'm not fast & the price may be too high. So, I'm still looking & pricing different tires.

Tks.

[cmiovino]

Your main issue is the age of the tires. 5 years is extremely old for 200TW tires. With age, the rubber breaks down and becomes harder.

To compound this even more, factor in heat cycles. 4 track days a year x5, you're at 20 track days, plus various autocross you say you do. Even if you're not using all the tread to the wear bars, the tire is still heating up and cooling down. I had the RS3's back in the day on another car and felt like they heat cycled out around 60-70 autocross runs - even quicker than RE-71R's.

On other 200TW tires, I've always felt a noticeable decrease in grip just storing them over a winter.... properly even. In plastic bags, inside at 60+ degrees.

I'd get new tires and if you're not hurting for tread life, I'd go with something like the RT660's. Wear more, but you'll probably get 2-3 years out of them with your use. The Conti ECS might be up there too for a ~300TW tire that will still give you good lap times and last a bit longer.