Touchy Down shift into 2nd and 1st

[Flarider]

Howdy Folks,

I've seen several YouTube videos about the BRZ manual transmission being difficult to downshift into 2nd and 1st gear. One example is here at 10:05 the BRZ owner specifically discusses this:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpGAI1eCRbw"]8 Things I Dislike About My Subaru BRZ - YouTube[/ame]

I'm about to buy a 2016 BRZ and will do occasional Autocross events where quick downshifts into 2nd gear are required.

Should I be concerned about this?

Any input for a new BRZ enthusiast is much appreciated!


Leo

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

It definitely doesn't like it at higher speeds, but once you're slow enough, it'll reluctantly let you. Takes a firm hand, but I do it all the time no problem. If you're finding that it's an issue in your future car, make sure it's warmed through first. You can also try switching to a different tranny fluid. Can't recommend any cause we live in different climates. I didn't have any problems with the OEM stuff.

[JoeC]

if you rev match, it'll go into 2nd no problem. Even if you don't rev match, it'll do it. It's just a bit more clunky. I can downshift into 1st too but it requires a bit more finesse and there're not really any advantage. Heck, sometimes I'll down shift into second without the clutch just by timing the speed and RPM correctly. There's not really a good reason to do it, it's just kinda fun when you get it right.

[chaoskaze]

Don’t down shift into first? If you doz rev match really high then do it.


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[ermax]

If you learn how to double clutch then you can slip it into 1st at any speed like butter. A simple rev match only slings the flywheel so it still over works the syncros and doesn’t like to shift. When double clutching you are slinging the flywheel AND the input shaft so the syncros are barely loaded.

I learned to double clutch out of necessity on my old Integra. The syncros were completely gone so the only way to downshift was to double clutch. Now I can’t break the habit so I do it on all cars.

[Subsonic]

Hi Leo,

The internet is full of this type of "advice" isn't it! The list of things I dislike about my 86 is so much less important than the things I love about it! I’m surprised anyone even gives a moment’s time to “things I hate” type of content. Here’s 8 things I love about my 86 in no particular order:

1. RWD
2. That coupe styling
3. The LSD and the skids it lets me do
4. The Handbrake
5. Steering feel
6. Aftermarket tuning scope
7. Driving position
8. The 6MT gearbox

8 things I don’t like:

1. Sometimes I wish I had steering wheel radio / phone controls
2. The doors don’t stay open on my steep driveway
3. Having to turn off the driver aids every time I start the engine
4. That’s it, I’m out of ideas…

In short, I’ve driven my car on the track and in autocross and never once have I felt I couldn’t get into any gear at any time. Sometimes when the ‘box is cold I have to push too hard to engage first while rolling, so I double shuffle or not at all. I doubt my transmission is any different from all the thousands of others because that’s how every manual transmission I’ve ever driven works.

If you focus on the positive things about this car, when you get yours I hope you will love it as much as I do mine.

[ermax]

Haha, my list of pros matches yours other than the order. Your list of cons also matches mine only I was able to fix the problem with the doors slamming on inclines.

[Subsonic]

Originally Posted by ermax

Haha, my list of pros matches yours other than the order. Your list of cons also matches mine only I was able to fix the problem with the doors slamming on inclines.

Indeed! I saw the thread on fixing the door stays by shimming them, and I’m summoning the courage to remove my door cards one day to do it. It’s just that I’m a little busy just now thrashing my tyres down to the belts to find the time…

My list could be so much longer too. What are some of other things you love about yours? I would also like to add:

• That ability to hold a given steering input in a corner and adjust the line by throttle. Not only can you open or tighten the line at will, but the feeling in the steering adjusts accordingly to tell you exactly what’s going on with the grip up front. No front wheel drive / 4wd car gives you this and it’s the subtlety of that that people miss when whinging all day long about gear crunch and torque dip. Philistines…

[mistople]

It will go into second fine. It just feels like a much shorter gear, so you tend to have to rev it higher than you'd think. Even at lower speeds.

I don't even shift into first unless I'm below 5mph. Even then, it doesn't love it w/o a double clutch. I don't think I've driven many cars that DO like going into first at any speed..

[ermax]

I like that it’s easy to work on. Haven’t pulled the engine yet but it looks fairly straight forward. Dropping the tranny is the easiest of any car I’ve owned to date. I like that it has an aluminum under tray rather than a plastic one that droops over time. I like the oil filter being in top so oil doesn’t go all over the place when changing the filter. I like that you can easily and cheaply get an OBD2 cable and Techstream for pairing key fobs and transponders. Disable the DRLs, data log etc. Also for a reasonable price you can get a Tactix cable to flash the ECU and also do Techstream.

I can add a few to the cons though. The passenger seat doesn’t lock forward for rear access and the passenger occupancy sensor is too sensitive. Luckily I was able to disable the seatbelt warning with Techstream.

I could list things I wish it had. Climate control, auto headlights, LEDs all around. I know that isn’t the goal of the car but I’ve had all these things for so long I’ve grown used to them. Although I do like some aspects of manual AC. For example I can tell it to recirculate and it will stay there indefinitely. I hate how so many cars today are determined to smog you out. As for auto headlights. I have a game plan to add this to my car using a photocell and relay kit I found on Amazon along with the headlight stalk from the BRZ.

I am also going to try to build a harness that will relocate the DRLs to the front parking lights (with white/amber switchbacks) which would then allow me to use an LED for the high beam. Basically if the car is outputting low voltage to the high beam (DRL mode) then I would detect that and turn on the front parking lights. If I detect high voltage then I pass it through to the high beam. But I’m not sure I’m sold on LEDs in place of the halogens. I just threw one in for the low beams and although the color is nice and the coverage is even, I’m not sure the total output is enough. I’ve only driven in the dark a few times so far so we will see.

All in all this is my favorite car. It’s a drivers car for sure. I always tell people there are car enthusiasts and there are driving enthusiasts. Car enthusiasts have different priorities. Something that has a DSG and good 0-60 times with lots of aids and looks cool and has noisy speakers. A driving enthusiast will take a car that looks like a trash can on 4 wheels as long as it’s fun to drive it like you stole it... while the stereo is turned off. Hahaha. The FRS just happens to not look like a trash can.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by mistople

I don't think I've driven many cars that DO like going into first at any speed..

Exactly. There is too big of an RPM change between 1st and 2nd for single cone syncros to handle. Most cars don’t get autoxed so the need get it in 1st at say 20mph isn’t that common. No company is going to put double or triple cone syncros on 1st for such a small group of customers. Plus most people that autox know how to double clutch it into 1st anyways.

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by Flarider

Howdy Folks,

I've seen several YouTube videos about the BRZ manual transmission being difficult to downshift into 2nd and 1st gear. One example is here at 10:05 the BRZ owner specifically discusses this:

I'm about to buy a 2016 BRZ and will do occasional Autocross events where quick downshifts into 2nd gear are required.

Should I be concerned about this?

Any input for a new BRZ enthusiast is much appreciated!


Leo

Well,
1. That dude in the vid is a retard.
2. he's a retard
3. He probably sucks you know what.
4. He's kind of a retard.

That being said, don't get a BRZ/frs. If a little video like shifting from 2nd to 1st makes you think about getting that car then don't do it.

Buy a civic. Problem solved

[ImportPer4mance_]

Originally Posted by mistople

It will go into second fine. It just feels like a much shorter gear, so you tend to have to rev it higher than you'd think. Even at lower speeds.

I don't even shift into first unless I'm below 5mph. Even then, it doesn't love it w/o a double clutch. I don't think I've driven many cars that DO like going into first at any speed..

^ Pretty much this.

I don't even double clutch at all. For 2nd, just rev it more than you would normally for 3rd or 4th etc. because it is a much shorter gear.

For 1st, I just slip it in at extremely low speeds (only time you'll honestly use first gear in this car) and it's absolutely fine.

There's nothing to worry about regarding shifts into 2nd or 1st with this car.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Flarider

Howdy Folks,

I've seen several YouTube videos about the BRZ manual transmission being difficult to downshift into 2nd and 1st gear. ................Any input for a new BRZ enthusiast is much appreciated!


Leo

Hello Flarider ....... welcome to our forum ......

I wouldn't worry about trying to downshift into first gear, unless your car is stopped.

Why do that ..?? Maybe going up Pikes Peak in a hairpin curve on the old gravel section ...... if some jerk stops in front of you.

I don't know about autocross ...... maybe ......

Personally, I use first gear in this car as I used to use the first (granny) in old 2 ton trucks ....... just to get started, if loaded.


humfrz