Is DD with a UEL and tune worth the jump to STX from DS

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

Hey guys,
LOOOONG time lurker. I'm picking up a new to me BRZ for a daily driver and autocross toy. I'm looking forward to our upcoming but short autocross season this year (Alaska problems). With the group of cars that compete here I'm not going to be fighting for the top spot in raw times, so PAX is where I think I'll be competitive.

With this new car I'm really interested in doing a UEL and OFT tune, frankly just for the little bit of noise and torque dip reduction. But I have no desire or plan for coilovers, wide tires and all the other things that STX'ers typically do. I will be replacing the stock tires! (as soon as it finishes snowing)

So my question to you all is, whether having the rumble and smoother torque on the daily worth the PAX hit during autocross season?

About me:Last season I co-drove a friends early C4 corvette (and beat him at every event), and long before that I was in HS with my trusty sentra. So I generally have fun with driving 'slow' cars fast.

Thanks for the input!

[strat61caster]

imo no, most of the gains come from suspension and tires.

You're free to get any catback exhaust so that may help a bit on the noise front.

[gramicci101]

It depends on if you're building your car to be competitive in a particular class or if you're building your car for yourself and do autoX to learn and because it's fun. If you're not concerned with being competitive, then do what you want to the car, don't worry about what class you end up in, and have fun driving. If you want to be competitive, then you need to review the rules for the class in question and build your car to that end, whether it has a header or not.

[smg1138]

Header and tune is the main reason I'm not still in CS. I just couldn't deal with the stock torque dip any longer, so pulled the trigger on JDL UEL headers and OFT tune. It really wakes the car up and makes it a lot more fun to drive.

[coxxoc]

If it is a DD, I would get the header and tune. It makes the car much better to drive in the RPM band you use on roads and highways. You aren't building a race car. You are enjoying driving your street car in a competitive event right?

In the end, it is your car. Do what you think you will enjoy the most!

[RJasonKlein]

@imnotsureaboutbrz welcome to the forum and congratulations in advance on getting the BRZ. That said, it may be time to change your user name!

I started to spell out my thoughts, but honestly @coxxoc nailed it - I say go for it and enjoy the car!

[finch1750]

Wait til you get the car and see how you like it. If it isnt enough for you DD wise then get the header and tune.

Hard to tell how competative you would be depending on your competition, but no wheels and tires will make a bigger difference then the header and tune autox wise.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

It depends on if you're building your car to be competitive in a particular class or if you're building your car for yourself and do autoX to learn and because it's fun. If you're not concerned with being competitive, then do what you want to the car, don't worry about what class you end up in, and have fun driving. If you want to be competitive, then you need to review the rules for the class in question and build your car to that end, whether it has a header or not.

This is what I do. There is such a wide range of skill levels at those events, it isn't even realistic expecting to be competitive until you've got some experience under your belt. I've literally seen a POS jetta TDI from the 90's run a faster time than some old dude in a C6 Z06. I'd just install whatever mods you want and go have fun improving your skills.


Any form of motorsports where you're building your own car and sponsors and/or potential for profit aren't there just seems like a waste to me as far as sinking your own money to build a class car. Maybe I'm totally ignorant to the backroom dealings of the autocross community but I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as say, a $5000 buy in, winner take all autocross event like what goes down at the drag strips. You're not going to get any sponsors for being good either unless you're very, very good. Like good on a national level. So what's the point really? Just slap whatever you want on your car, go try to improve and best your own times, and screw their class system and being "competitive". Most of their classing system is voodoo black magic anyway, and makes little to no sense.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Maybe I'm totally ignorant to the backroom dealings of the autocross community but I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as say, a $5000 buy in, winner take all autocross event like what goes down at the drag strips.

Pro Solo

You're not going to get any sponsors for being good either unless you're very, very good. Like good on a national level. So what's the point really? Just slap whatever you want on your car, go try to improve and best your own times, and screw their class system and being "competitive". Most of their classing system is voodoo black magic anyway, and makes little to no sense.

I believe the first bold statement is a value call, just like the OP's question of whether or not UELs to move to STX is worth it.

In general, SCCA's classing system makes plenty of sense:

- Stock - As close to stock as possible and race
- Street Touring - Most common mods people put on their cars (and used to be one of the only street tire classes) and race
- Streep Prepared - Close to a race car, big budget, and race
- Prepared - Effectively a race car and race

If you would like to have a more cynical look at autoX classes, I would like to suggest this link.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Pro Solo



I believe the first bold statement is a value call, just like the OP's question of whether or not UELs to move to STX is worth it.

In general, SCCA's classing system makes plenty of sense:

- Stock - As close to stock as possible and race
- Street Touring - Most common mods people put on their cars (and used to be one of the only street tire classes) and race
- Streep Prepared - Close to a race car, big budget, and race
- Prepared - Effectively a race car and race

If you would like to have a more cynical look at autoX classes, I would like to suggest this link.

So exactly what I said. Not a whole lot of money all things considered in exchange for winning against an elite, select few on a national stage. You can literally make more than that in one weekend at a drag strip.

As for the classing rules, yes they are non-sensical. This is the reason there's a "car to have" every year because it comes from the factory with better overall performance than everything else they've thrown into that class. It is also the reason there are certain platforms that are never competitive because the stuff that they made up for the class system rules hardly ever actually translates to any sort of even playing field between different models.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

So exactly what I said. Not a whole lot of money all things considered in exchange for winning against an elite, select few on a national stage. You can literally make more than that in one weekend at a drag strip.

As for the classing rules, yes they are non-sensical. This is the reason there's a "car to have" every year because it comes from the factory with better overall performance than everything else they've thrown into that class. It is also the reason there are certain platforms that are never competitive because the stuff that they made up for the class system rules hardly ever actually translates to any sort of even playing field between different models.

If you're trying to compete to turn a profit you're completely in the wrong hobby.

ST is usually pretty stable, and SCCA will do what it takes to make sure FRS/BRZ remain competitive (see DS move)

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

As for the classing rules, yes they are non-sensical. This is the reason there's a "car to have" every year because it comes from the factory with better overall performance than everything else they've thrown into that class. It is also the reason there are certain platforms that are never competitive because the stuff that they made up for the class system rules hardly ever actually translates to any sort of even playing field between different models.

I'd love to see you come up with something better. The only way to have exactly similarly competitive cars in all classes is to have a zillion smaller classes, which is unrealistic.

[nico_rsx]

I would suggest you run a couple of AutoX days in the street class, and then calculate with the times you ran and the STX PAX index what position that would put you in. Because in the end, headers and tune will not make the car a lot faster.
The twins have good suspension, so that may not be required to make good time in STX, but wider tires is a necessity.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

If you're trying to compete to turn a profit you're completely in the wrong hobby.

Exactly. So just do what you want, go out and improve and have fun, and stop caring about trying to be competitive by staying within the structure and rules.

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

I'd love to see you come up with something better. The only way to have exactly similarly competitive cars in all classes is to have a zillion smaller classes, which is unrealistic.

Asking a random person online to come up with better regulations than SCCA is like asking a random person to make laws or run the country better than the "idiots in charge". Most of them won't be able to do it if given the chance but it doesn't mean those that are, are actually doing a good job or don't deserve the criticism thrown their way.


However, I'll make a few comments on the matter anyway. The last time I read through some autocross rules, the only way they truly work is between two of the same type of car. Springs or coilovers get you put somewhere, forced induction or engine swap get you put somewhere, weight reduction gets you put somewhere. There's nothing quantified about most of it beyond that.


Are the classes based on things like total weight or wheelbase? No. Does it make sense to have people coming in with special edition wider wheels and tires in the lower classes because it is "what came on it from the factory or x length over that"? No. Look at the BOP getting pissy because the FIA GT cars are running 4 seconds apart on a huge course like Sarthe and think about how far apart some of the "same class" autocross cars are running on a tiny cone course. Where does a 4 cylinder Genny coupe with a gutted interior and intake/exhaust end up classed compared to a stock twin, both with the same tire compound? It probably still weighs more and would lose but I bet it is classed higher.