Revisting the phantom electric supercharger

[CY86]

Originally Posted by gtengr

At the horsepower input level required for an e-charger, it's probably more efficient to use a KERS to recharge it, at which point it would be more efficient to apply power back through that system instead of applying it to a FI component of a less efficient engine. I think a more useful application is to incorporate the electrics into a turbo so that it activates under certain conditions to spool the turbo to a preset RPM.

what do you mean by the "input level required?

[EAGLE5]

There's a reason engines are going gas turbo and not electric turbo. With a small, well-designed, twin-scroll and/or variable vane turbo, you can get boost thresholds just off idle while improving efficiency. If you're going to muck around with extra batteries and an electric motor, you're better off just going hybrid. Then the motor can add efficiency through regen, and you can fill in responsiveness with instant electric torque.

With turbo kits as cheap as they are, why bother with this mess?

And regular old turbos are only going to get better. Companies are still making significant improvements in efficiency with each generation. The Mazda 2.3L turbo feels like an old 4.0 V6 at every rpm but it kicks butt in efficiency.

[Matt@Cosworth]

Originally Posted by CY86

the guys at Cosworth have done tremendous work over thelast few decades. I personally fell in love with the old sierra saphire cozzy!

I think @Matt@Cosworth is not mocking the tesla design as much as not being familiar with it. and he does have a point. other than some zero point energy seekers spreading more disinfo about tesla's designs and concepts, Tesla's tech has never been given a fair shake in our modern time withthe progressions of technologies, and materials.

It's all fascinating stuff... at least, to me.

On a side note @Matt@Cosworth, if the old Cozzy GT86 ever comes up for sale, could you let me know mate? i ran into your old post too late.

its up for sale now see here
https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/a...7-a97e00bf8bbc

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by CY86

what do you mean by the "input level required?

I think an electric supercharger would need a consistent 20 hp or more from the electrical system to make boost at high rpm.

[CY86]

Originally Posted by gtengr

I think an electric supercharger would need a consistent 20 hp or more from the electrical system to make boost at high rpm.

i don't think so, no.
what it would need is more air, or cooler air.
more air =more boost. so perhaps running 2 chargers together might work, a secondary behind the first would increase boost quite well. i know there is some formula for this, but i am not a physist so plz don't quote me. in fact, i think that should a different compressor design be made rather than the conventional type, smaller motors and compressors might be able to be used, thus requiring less charge.
again, just thinking outside of the box.
It was a real shame the wya the phantom died the way it did.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by CY86

i don't think so, no.what it would need is more air, or cooler air.
more air =more boost. so perhaps running 2 chargers together might work, a secondary behind the first would increase boost quite well. i know there is some formula for this, but i am not a physist so plz don't quote me. in fact, i think that should a different compressor design be made rather than the conventional type, smaller motors and compressors might be able to be used, thus requiring less charge.
again, just thinking outside of the box.
It was a real shame the wya the phantom died the way it did.

You should revisit the power requirements for operating an air pump. Using electricity to spin a compressor doesn't make the compressor more efficient.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

There's a reason engines are going gas turbo and not electric turbo. With a small, well-designed, twin-scroll and/or variable vane turbo, you can get boost thresholds just off idle while improving efficiency. If you're going to muck around with extra batteries and an electric motor, you're better off just going hybrid. Then the motor can add efficiency through regen, and you can fill in responsiveness with instant electric torque.

With turbo kits as cheap as they are, why bother with this mess?

And regular old turbos are only going to get better. Companies are still making significant improvements in efficiency with each generation. The Mazda 2.3L turbo feels like an old 4.0 V6 at every rpm but it kicks butt in efficiency.

Did you miss the articles with higher end brands using electric superchargers?

Right now the big limiting factor is a 12v electrical system, it requires too many amps for the supercharger to work well. Bump it to 48v and it suddenly becomes more efficient and useful.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Did you miss the articles with higher end brands using electric superchargers?

Right now the big limiting factor is a 12v electrical system, it requires too many amps for the supercharger to work well. Bump it to 48v and it suddenly becomes more efficient and useful.

Most new modern cars are already going this for mild hybrid, stop start tech etc...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Did you miss the articles with higher end brands using electric superchargers?

Right now the big limiting factor is a 12v electrical system, it requires too many amps for the supercharger to work well. Bump it to 48v and it suddenly becomes more efficient and useful.

Bump it to 300V and shit gets real.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Did you miss the articles with higher end brands using electric superchargers?

Right now the big limiting factor is a 12v electrical system, it requires too many amps for the supercharger to work well. Bump it to 48v and it suddenly becomes more efficient and useful.

Did you miss the part about how that's all over-complicated shit? I want me an Audi diesel with an electric supercharger, a mid-range turbo, and a high-rpm turbo. I'm sure it will last a long time before exploding all over the asphalt. In Formula 1, these are great. In the real world, where cost and complexity actually matter, these are crap. A gas turbo engine and a plug-in hybrid system have massive efficiency and performance potential.