Anyone make their own muffler delete / turn-down?

[wparsons]

How can you claim one post with dyno results is junk then say another person that did the same testing is real world true numbers??

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by wparsons

How can you claim one post with dyno results is junk then say another person that did the same testing is real world true numbers??

Have you read the article? They swapped and swapped and swapped..the ECU hadn't had time to learn at all. Over time, the ECU corrects itself and the car starts to run rich and lose even more power.

I feel like cars that are tuned in person by a reputable tuner are a far better example. They are compensating where needed and dialing everything in to work in harmony and at its maximum potential. If a reputable tuner can't overcome the loss of back pressure resulting in a loss of power, I think that speaks volumes in comparison to a test where they just swapped catbacks all day long.

Lastly, individuals cars have far more variables involved than the test did. The two cars tuned here in south Florida with the muffler delete had the same result as another car recently tuned in AZ with a muffler delete.

I know you're busy bro but if you have a moment can you please share your experiences with muffler deletes with these fine gentlemen here @FA20Club.com?

[BlueDubbinTDI]

So what would you couple with a muffler delete with while also saving weight? a high flow cat? Do resonators increase back pressure?

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by BlueDubbinTDI

So what would you couple with a muffler delete with while also saving weight? a high flow cat? Do resonators increase back pressure?

I'm running a Borla UEL, Overpipe, hi flow catted front pipe from Perrin, and resonated Perrin catback (2.5"). I went with the hi flow cat to keep the raspiness and smell down to a minimum after removing the OEM header containing two cats. The resonated and non resonated Perrin catbacks both put down nearly identical numbers so again, just to cut down on obnoxious levels of sound.

Am I saying that my setup is the best? No, not at all!! I have seen plenty of other setups put down great power and eliminate the TQ dip as well. Did I save weight? Yes, but not a ton..the Perrin stuff is almost identical to OEM weight but the Borla header saved some weight.

Guys, if any of you are going turbo then I think a muffler delete is great. A full 3" system with very little back pressure will work fantastic!! The guys running SC setups have tested systems with low back pressure and have had the same results as NA on these cars. So far the only setups that have shown considerable improvements have been turbo.

As I said before, I have no reason to bash any mod or products unless I know they don't work. I'm trying to save you a few bucks and some valuable time by sharing my experience and experience of one of the most reputable tuners for our platform. His shop is 5 miles from my house and when he dyno's my car we always talk about what cars are making solid, reliable power and what cars have surprised us by the lack there of.

I'm trying to help here, not bash anyone.

[3_NA_HAF]

I'll be honest, I didn't read half of what you 2 are arguing about, not going to say either is right or wrong. But, power gain/loss has nothing to do with the Look. He wants something louder.... thats all. It's up to him if he wants to risk less power.

Anyways, to the OP, the best way is to take it to a costum exhaust shop (even backyard quality will do fora track pipe you wont see) and have them make one. I can't see it costing a lot. The only real work will be the flange, they would have enough scrap pipe to do the rest. As for what these guys are arguing about, you could always have them add a loud muffler or resonator for a little added back pressure.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by 3_NA_HAF

I'll be honest, I didn't read half of what you 2 are arguing about, not going to say either is right or wrong. But, power gain/loss has nothing to do with the Look. He wants something louder.... thats all. It's up to him if he wants to risk less power.

Anyways, to the OP, the best way is to take it to a costum exhaust shop (even backyard quality will do fora track pipe you wont see) and have them make one. I can't see it costing a lot. The only real work will be the flange, they would have enough scrap pipe to do the rest. As for what these guys are arguing about, you could always have them add a loud muffler or resonator for a little added back pressure.

Chad, I'm not looking for a step by step how to, If you read my post I'm more or less looking for recommendations of sizes of material.

Thanks @3_NA_HAF, to be honest I could care less about a few HP loss; I can't hear shit on track and am over-revving a bit on my heel toe downshifts, which is the only reason I'm looking for the muffler delete. I'm already loosing HP by having timing pulled b/c of oil temps on track.

Rest of the exhaust is completely stock, so I'm not sure how much back pressure is really lost, or how that would affect a loss in HP.

I'm curious to hear from @FA20Club.com on how much HP guys are loosing with a muffler delete only, and the rest of the exhaust/engine stock.

[mrk1]

Just a thought on the turn down idea, you may want to ad a hanger since it may wiggle around.

I believe a 2" 2 bolt flange will will to attach to the mid pipe. Then just a 45 or 90 degree bend.

[supramkivtt2jz]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

You know that a muffler delete on this car loses about 8-10 WHP, right? Unless you're running a full turbo setup, stick with a 2.5" exhaust for maximum power. These cars don't do well NA or SC with little to no back pressure.

Please provide proof of losing horsepower and that these cars do not do well with little back pressure.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

You know that a muffler delete on this car loses about 8-10 WHP, right? Unless you're running a full turbo setup, stick with a 2.5" exhaust for maximum power. These cars don't do well NA or SC with little to no back pressure.

When will people stop with this back pressure nonsense?

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

When will people stop with this back pressure nonsense?

Nonsense? 3 out of 3 he has dyno'd have all lost power. I've tagged him in the post and if he would like to post charts or share his experience then he will.

The only "nonsense" is people arguing with with a dyno. If you run a car with a part vs without the part then you have your answer. If you don't like that answer, fine, but that doesn't change the facts.

Do a search..you won't find any power gains. In fact you find more people saying that it just makes more noise and has lost power if anything. People aren't so anxious to post charts of their car losing power I guess. On the two day session of FA20Club tuning in AZ recently was the last person on the dyno with one that lost power. I'm not sure if he is a member on this forum or not but if anyone was there for the tuning event then maybe they can tag him in this thread...

Again, I'm sick of people arguing that have no evidence otherwise. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's ego...either way you're wrong. If the OP just wants to hear his motor a little more on the track, this will help...at a cost of performance. The power lost vs weight saved still isn't worth it in my book. If its worth it to you then by all means, go for it!!

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Nonsense? 3 out of 3 he has dyno'd have all lost power. I've tagged him in the post and if he would like to post charts or share his experience then he will.

The only "nonsense" is people arguing with with a dyno. If you run a car with a part vs without the part then you have your answer. If you don't like that answer, fine, but that doesn't change the facts.

Do a search..you won't find any power gains. In fact you find more people saying that it just makes more noise and has lost power if anything. People aren't so anxious to post charts of their car losing power I guess. On the two day session of FA20Club tuning in AZ recently was the last person on the dyno with one that lost power. I'm not sure if he is a member on this forum or not but if anyone was there for the tuning event then maybe they can tag him in this thread...

Again, I'm sick of people arguing that have no evidence otherwise. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's ego...either way you're wrong. If the OP just wants to hear his motor a little more on the track, this will help...at a cost of performance. The power lost vs weight saved still isn't worth it in my book. If its worth it to you then by all means, go for it!!

I was talking about the actual term. It's not the back pressure you should be worried about.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

I was talking about the actual term. It's not the back pressure you should be worried about.

I agree with the term.. When I think of the term back pressure I think of two stroke motors and expansion chambers. Unfortunately that's the most commonly used term here whenever these discussions arise.

[BlueDubbinTDI]

I'll ask again. Does a resonator increase back pressure or not? I'm not that familiar with them but arent they basically a straight pipe?

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

I agree with the term.. When I think of the term back pressure I think of two stroke motors and expansion chambers. Unfortunately that's the most commonly used term here whenever these discussions arise.

Yeah, but what you actually want is 0 back pressure.
You want exhaust to exit the chamber as fast as possible.

Can you explain to me why you would want back pressure on the exhaust stopping it from escaping as fast as possible?
Keep in mind, I'm not saying a bigger diameter or a straight dump is essentially better either.