Fa20club Parts, Service, and Ingenuity.

[Hawaiian]

I'm sorry for the long, Picture and link heavy post, but it's time to give my honest review of Fa20club.

PARTS:

I spoke to Paul & P&L a lot while testing their header (more on that later), and one of the things I expressed an interest in was a CAI. After a lot of discussion and seeing the general lack of results he had decided it wasn't wort the time to create one on an already glutted CAI market. At the time there were about 10-15 intakes to choose from with more on the way.

Still wanting one, I reached out to Toni/Doyne/antonio since we already had an existing relationship through the remote tuning of my car. Hell, he even gave me a price break 220 instead of the list 280. What's not to like about that?

After a bit of waiting, The package finally arrived, and I was as happy as a kid on christmas. I tore into the box to inspect my new prize and my joy quickly changed.

Notice the flat edge on the top of the longer pipe


A better view.

It appeared that it was dropped after the cheap "spray on" coating and bent the edge as further evidence shows where it hit the ground and chipped the coating. I couldn't even fit the pipes together properly because of the bent edge. I suppose I could have bent the pipe into shape, but that's not what I paid for.

Also, there was a large gob of slag, as well as an uneven lip right in front of the MAF.

I got on the phone with Toni and he told me to send it back to him, and that he would get me a new one. So, I paid out of my pocket to ship him the beat up pipe. He didn't give me an address, so I figured I would use the return address on the box. It was one of Tonys many LLC's. One All Star Designs LLC. After a week or 2 had passed I got a slip from the post office saying they had a package waiting for me. Unfortunately It was my original Box. You see, All Star Designs is just a shipping front. The post office said it was an empty building and that the package was "undeliverable."

So, I contacted Antonio and this time gave me a new shipping address. No apology or explanation. I quickly wrote the new address on the box, and again, paid out of pocket to ship this box a second time.

Unfortunately I was so focused on how bad QC was that let this pipe go out, that I didn't even pay attention to the other pipe until after I had sent it out. While I was waiting a few weeks for that pipe to come back I took a good look at the second pipe. The pieces were misaligned, and there was a huge step between them.

The pipes were offset several MM

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I should have inspected everything fully when I first got it, and I didn't. I decided to suck it up, maybe grind that down a little and call it a day.

After a long wait the first pipe finally came back. There was no slag in front of the maf, the pipe wasn't misshapen, and I could live with the cheap coating...

But there wasn't a recirc like I ordered. His solution was to send me a new one, and have me bore out a hole and install it. Hey, F-me right?

After all of that I just got frustrated and left it on the shelf. At one point during this ordeal I had shown everything to Paul. He told me to send it all back for a refund, and he would make me a Prototype intake for free (I've never received anything free from him, but I think he felt sorry for me). I declined, and then threw the intake in a box on my shelf, and left it in my garage. Chalk it up to one of those life lessons.

Service:

I initially got in touch with Toni while I was testing the P&L header (more later). Initially things were great, but after my intake incident, and accusations of copying the P&L product he dropped off the radar. My e-mails were not responded to and tune adjustment requests were ignored.

This put me in a bad spot because another local had gotten a tune through Toni at my suggestion, and was using my cable. Now he wasn't getting new maps either. I didn't even bring up any of the drama. No mention of the CAI to anyone other than my close friends, and I even defended him when someone accused him of knocking off P&L saying that there are only so many ways to route the piping.

With so many people still positive on Fa20club I knew if I went after him, due to my relationship with P&L, it would be seen as me trying to snipe the competition and I would have been roasted alive.

I knew however, it was only a matter of time before his unlimited retune business model backfired, but hey. It was working for Visconti, and whatever works must be copied.

That brings me to..

Innovation:

of which there isn't really much. I understand there are only so many ways to skin a cat, but in light of his past history of doing this same thing, and @nelsmar posting that in a private conversation he admitted to buying parts, copying them, and returning them, well. I think that speaks for its self.

One of the most "blatant" copy is the P&L 4-1 EL modular header. Some of you are newer to the forums, and don't remember the first FA20club turbo kit was a Bottom mount turbo. This in its self is fairly key. The first 4 Turbo kits to market were AVO (bottom mount), Accelerated Performance (bottom mount, later changed to front), P&L (front mount), and Full Blown (front mount).

Avo and AP started posting pictures very early in their development cycle, and lo and behold, along comes FA20club with their bottom mounted turbo kit. P&L and FBM kept their cards close to their chest and didn't release any photos or information until the kits were built and ready for release, so there was less chance of other companies using their placement or style as quickly as had happened with AVO or AP.

After the P&L kit was built Paul decided to utilize the turbo header, and built a NA header in a way that would allow it to be reused for their kit, setting up a potential upgrade path for the people who will constantly be tempted for more power.

Enter me; I had already worked with Paul while letting them do a full exhaust on my car. P&L is literally on my drive to work every day, so I would stop in there from time to time. I had also met Visconti while he was working on their turbo kit, and paid for an ecutek kit and tune. Since the shop car was turboed it would be a lot of work and man hours to go back to NA. I already had his exhaust, a tuner, i lived near by so it all worked out well for everyone.

When we were in the testing phase, we put the car on the dyno, and it produced a lot of power on pump with Visconti's OTS map. I sent him a photo of the plot, and I got the usual "Looks good, post it on the forums." The human hype machine known as JV struck again. Quick to get some self publicity, but I got no response from him to retune the car for the new header.

At this point I reached out to Toni. He agreed to temporarily tune my car for free on E85 for testing purposes, and a little publicity. I gave him my word that I would delete the tune and reflash it back after everything was done. We then set a date for a remote dyno tuning session, and everything looked great. I also got him in contact with Paul. He was originally looking at becoming a vendor and reselling the P&L header for himself. Everything was looking rosy. Tuning was a success, so much so that I wanted to keep the E85 tune. I paid Toni for his tune and proceded with my testing.

A little more than a month after my prototyping:
(Links)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28383

Doyne struck
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...70&postcount=1

This change included a complete revamp from an undermounted turbo to a Front mounted turbo, and a nearly identical header. I guess he didn't like the price Paul was cutting him and decided to run with it at a slightly lower price. The major difference is of course the location of the VBAND. With the P&L header it requires a little fab work to convert them, but since P&L has an in house fabricator, the work is easy for them to get done, whereas FA20 has to outsource their fab work, and it would cost more.

Another thing I found oddly similar was @tonystewart was having the same issue I was with the same runner in exactly the same spot. @CircuitJerk has seen mine up close and can verify it. I also had a few photos floating around here

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=364

My modified skidplate


Maybe this is all speculation, I said it myself there are very limiting factors in what you can do with a front mounted turbo, but the coincidences really add up.
@King Tut all done. @Ny Brz Here's a bit of background for you.

[King Tut]

I did not even know how similar the two headers were prior to this post.

[Ny Brz]

@Hawaiian fair play. I'm glad you posted this, everyone should know the truth practices that go on with with vendors and what they do. I bought my kit at the time where the FA20Club V2 turbo kit was being offered and looked like a kit that was something a bit different. At that time all the reviews were very positive on the kit and Toni's tuning, someone local had their kit installed last July and was very happy with kit but had his kit tune buy Junior. Obviously now seeing what has transpired and all the news that is coming out i would have definitely went with another kit, whats done is done the kit is treating me fine and Juniors tune holding up only time will tell though.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Ny Brz

@Hawaiian fair play. I'm glad you posted this, everyone should know the truth practices that go on with with vendors and what they do. I bought my kit at the time where the FA20Club V2 turbo kit was being offered and looked like a kit that was something a bit different. At that time all the reviews were very positive on the kit and Toni's tuning, someone local had their kit installed last July and was very happy with kit but had his kit tune buy Junior. Obviously now seeing what has transpired and all the news that is coming out i would have definitely went with another kit, whats done is done the kit is treating me fine and Juniors tune holding up only time will tell though.

Knockoffs happen, it's an unfortunate part of the industry , but for some reason I have more respect for people who don't even disguise the knockoff as their own, and embrace what it is.

I think the biggest problem with FA20 is actually getting the product, and QC. If it's not missing pieces, or straight up wrong to begin with, you should be fine with their stuff. When it comes to your tune, @JuniorAWD has been in the business for a while with tons of seat time tuning for many platforms, and is the in house tuner for several shops that are known for their performance and quality work.

I'm sure you will be fine for a longtime.

[nelsmar]

SMH. I always thought that looked like the P&L header... And said that I was pretty sure it was a copy but had never seen them in person. It is true there really are only so many places to route things. But it really seems his was "inspired" at minimal by the P&L.

[tonystewart]

I must be the lucky "ONE". CAI looks great, works great, EL Header stills looks new and doesn't leak yet. My early purchases were before the craftsmanship faltered.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by tonystewart

I must be the lucky "ONE". CAI looks great, works great, EL Header stills looks new and doesn't leak yet. My early purchases were before the craftsmanship faltered.

They will blame that on the fact that you live in Florida and are within striking distance of Toni.

[tonystewart]

That's funny

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by King Tut

They will blame that on the fact that you live in Florida and are within striking distance of Toni.

Nah, my intake looks as bad as the OP. Not even sure it's worth trying to sell vs throwing in the trash.

I cleaned mine up (removed splatter/burrs) before using it of course. Still I only used it because of the oil cooler. It's functionally "ok" but quality is shit.

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by Ny Brz

@Hawaiian fair play. I'm glad you posted this, everyone should know the truth practices that go on with with vendors and what they do. I bought my kit at the time where the FA20Club V2 turbo kit was being offered and looked like a kit that was something a bit different. At that time all the reviews were very positive on the kit and Toni's tuning, someone local had their kit installed last July and was very happy with kit but had his kit tune buy Junior. Obviously now seeing what has transpired and all the news that is coming out i would have definitely went with another kit, whats done is done the kit is treating me fine and Juniors tune holding up only time will tell though.

Told u Jr was good lol

[Ny Brz]

Knew about Junior way before he was at Prime, he's been tuning for over13 years. It only made sense he tune my car since it was at Prime. Rather have someone local as Prime is 20mins away from me. I know some other great tuners out there, Junior just makes sense. Had my 02 wrx tuned by Shiv and if he was local I may have gone to him as well.

[TouchMyHonda]

I have seen both of Hawaiians intakes and they are seriously worse than eBay quality intakes. I cannot believe they sell for over 250 bucks.

[tonystewart]