GR86 vs Camaro SS 1LE (weekend / track)

[driving_for_fun]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

A naked model isn't enough. You'd rather have an ugly woman in lace?
Wagyu beef isn't enough. You'd rather have some pink slime with A1?
Cashmere isn't enough. You'd rather have polyester with sequins?

Hire a guy to make motorboat noises while you drive.

For me, it's more like watching a movie without the cinematic soundtrack. I'd rather have it with the cinematic soundtrack.

One of the cars I cross shopped was Tesla Model 3 Performance. The acceleration was exciting at first, but it got boring pretty quickly. Build quality wasn't great, suspension sucked, was loud on highway, and the sound system was subpar. It failed as a fun car and as a luxury car. Once EV can do both, I'd love to consider again.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by driving_for_fun

For me, it's more like watching a movie without the cinematic soundtrack. I'd rather have it with the cinematic soundtrack.

One of the cars I cross shopped was Tesla Model 3 Performance. The acceleration was exciting at first, but it got boring pretty quickly. Build quality wasn't great, suspension sucked, was loud on highway, and the sound system was subpar. It failed as a fun car and as a luxury car. Once EV can do both, I'd love to consider again.

I'd rather watch a great movie without a soundtrack than a mediocre movie with a great soundtrack. Oh sure, there are virtuoso car soundtracks, but the twins sound like crap.

Teslas have their flaws for sure. I know them well. Their biggest flaw is garbage suspension. The current sound systems are quite good, though.

Sound is the least interesting part of cars, unless it's what's playing on the stereo.

[driving_for_fun]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I'd rather watch a great movie without a soundtrack than a mediocre movie with a great soundtrack. Oh sure, there are virtuoso car soundtracks, but the twins sound like crap.

Teslas have their flaws for sure. I know them well. Their biggest flaw is garbage suspension. The current sound systems are quite good, though.

Sound is the least interesting part of cars, unless it's what's playing on the stereo.

Agree they sound like crap. That's what made me hesitate with the GR86. I think an electric GR86 would be better in almost every way. More power, finally a decent front suspension, and better weight distribution. Just need battery energy density to improve.

[Pat]

I heard someone recently compare Teslas to a comedian that only has one joke to tell. But it's the greatest joke you've ever heard. The first time you experience it (maximum acceleration or the joke) it is fantastic. Each subsequent time it isn't as good, and the rate at which the experience deteriorates is really fast. After a few times it's just not special anymore.
Contrast that with a well-balanced chassis or someone with outstanding quick wit. That can be enjoyed for many years, and once in a while something new reveals itself that makes you smile through renewed appreciation.

[EAGLE5]

This is all just fanboying. There are many things to like about a car, and acceleration is a big fucking deal. I enjoy blasting out of corners. I enjoy getting home quickly. I enjoy passing slow vehicles in a flash. I enjoy beating the red light again and again. I enjoy the g forces and the smoothness of it all.

When the i4 M50 comes, it'll be a hell of a comparison. I'll invite someone with a Taycan Turbo and someone with a Plaid over so we can all compare experiences. Should be fun.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

I'd rather watch a great movie without a soundtrack than a mediocre movie with a great soundtrack. Oh sure, there are virtuoso car soundtracks, but the twins sound like crap.

Teslas have their flaws for sure. I know them well. Their biggest flaw is garbage suspension. The current sound systems are quite good, though.

Sound is the least interesting part of cars, unless it's what's playing on the stereo.

Not a Star Wars fan then?

[driving_for_fun]

I think we’re all just wired differently. We like what we like. I guess this can be called fanboying.

I don’t value street acceleration that much. It’s nothing compared to the thrill of switching to brake as late as possible before a turn on track. If you’re used to track days, then 1g of acceleration should feel normal. Even a Plaid can’t sustain that.

As long as the acceleration is enough to not get in my way, I’ll prioritize other aspects of the driving experience. I would argue that previous gen 86 was not enough. It was embarrassing to see Miatas pointing me by and the drivers checks back a few seconds later wondering why I didn’t pass yet.

I actually had more fun driving the Mini Cooper SE (6s 0-60) than Model 3 Performance (3.2s 0-60). It was inferior in every performance metric. But the agility and character of the Mini more than made up for it. Maybe it’s not that I don’t like EV acceleration, but that current gen EV are designed like appliance. I just don’t see the fun in it (yet).

[Pat]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

This is all just fanboying.

FWIW, I don't think the person I heard making that analogy owns an 86.
Also, people that value characteristics of a car differently than you doesn't mean they are fanboys. It means they simply have different priorities or preferences.
But hey...it's easier to just put people in a box, dismiss them, and move on, isn't it?
I've driven many cars across a massive price range. I always appreciate the smaller, lighter cars more than the heavier cars regardless of the make. In fact, if I had to rank my favorite car brands, Subaru would be near the bottom of the list.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Pat

FWIW, I don't think the person I heard making that analogy owns an 86.
Also, people that value characteristics of a car differently than you doesn't mean they are fanboys. It means they simply have different priorities or preferences.
But hey...it's easier to just put people in a box, dismiss them, and move on, isn't it?
I've driven many cars across a massive price range. I always appreciate the smaller, lighter cars more than the heavier cars regardless of the make. In fact, if I had to rank my favorite car brands, Subaru would be near the bottom of the list.

I don't think he get's the irony of totally fanboying about his pick in cars while using the term as a demi insult with others.

[EAGLE5]

Yeah, it's fanboying to want fast, low COG, well-handling, efficient, comfortable cars.

Much better to like them loud, because noise is vital.

I'm sure horse fanboys, when looking at those newfangled cars, complained about how much they missed the clip clop of hooves, the neighing, and the constant shoveling of shit.

[CedN]

Well, fanboy of really good steering feel(very important, good steering is fun at all speeds), lightweight cars, good chassis balance, heel toeing manual transmissions etc. I dont care what badge is on the bonnet, and its not super important how much power is under there, as long as it have at least some character. My first daily driver weighted just slightly more than a tesla 100kwh battery pack, which is a bit funny Though i dont slam the fanboy sticker on people who enjoy drag racing, show cars, steam trains or collecting stamps, everyone enjoys different things in life.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by driving_for_fun

Agree they sound like crap. That's what made me hesitate with the GR86. I think an electric GR86 would be better in almost every way. More power, finally a decent front suspension, and better weight distribution. Just need battery energy density to improve.

What makes you think they would give it a better suspension?

And you'd seriously sacrifice engine sounds, LIGHT WEIGHT, and shifting gears for fractionally better weight distribution? It's not like the standard GR86 has the weight distribution of an Audi.

Basically dismissing everything that makes this car stand out from the crowd.

[driving_for_fun]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

What makes you think they would give it a better suspension?

And you'd seriously sacrifice engine sounds, LIGHT WEIGHT, and shifting gears for fractionally better weight distribution? It's not like the standard GR86 has the weight distribution of an Audi.

Basically dismissing everything that makes this car stand out from the crowd.

IMO the first generation 86's main weakness was the boxer engine. It sounded agricultural, was heavy and inefficient for the power that it made, and took away space for the suspension. A BEV version could run proper front suspension and improve the weight distribution.

Haven't driven the GR86 yet, but used to own a BRZ. I was never a fan of the engine character and transmission, but enjoyed the handling. A BEV version would just provide more of that. I don't think batteries are good enough yet, but sometime in the future there won't be much weight penalty.

[X25]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

Yeah, it's fanboying to want fast, low COG, well-handling, efficient, comfortable cars.

Much better to like them loud, because noise is vital.

I'm sure horse fanboys, when looking at those newfangled cars, complained about how much they missed the clip clop of hooves, the neighing, and the constant shoveling of shit.

Agreed; I do own a Tesla Model Y as well, and I can't stop getting amazed at how well it handles the roundabouts, ramps, and how much confidence it inspires that lets me use all the power it has.

The MUCH lower center of gravity, and almost all power available from the get go is just unsurmountable advantages. Stating that they are a one trick horse is just missing the whole point. Dare I say it, EVs, are the sportiest cars I can ever drive at the street with the fun available at all speeds. I do own a C7 Corvette Z06 as well, but despite all its might, it's not fun at the street at all, since I need triple digit speeds for fun, and any hard acceleration will be heard by the whole neighborhood, spoiling the fun. There's just no comparison : )