Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Prmspen

I have a question about sway bars. Last season I ran several C Street autocross events in by bone stock BRZ. I was fighting understeer the whole time. I want to set my car up as best I can for C Street (or D Street, if the BRZ ends up in that class) in 2017. Obviously I'll get rims and tires. Since I can also swap out one sway bar, I'm looking into options. Seems like most people go for a stiffer front bar, but I read that a stiffer front bar increases understeer.

Does a stiffer front bar increase understeer? Given that I'm prone to understeer already, would I be better off considering a stiffer rear bar instead?

What's your alignment? Bone stock suggests you didn't add bolts and max out negative camber, which will help you a lot.

The stiffer front bar does increase understeer, but it's done because of the assist in transitions it provides - something you see a lot of in the typical AutoX.

[Prmspen]

Originally Posted by cjd

What's your alignment? Bone stock suggests you didn't add bolts and max out negative camber, which will help you a lot.

The stiffer front bar does increase understeer, but it's done because of the assist in transitions it provides - something you see a lot of in the typical AutoX.

I have the stock crash bolts. About -1.5 degrees camber on the front. Neutral toe.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Prmspen

I have the stock crash bolts. About -1.5 degrees camber on the front. Neutral toe.

I'm not sure how much push is typical for C/DS twins since I run STX.

Most of the time I have obvious understeer problems it's a driver correction away from being solved... going in too hot is the usual cause; I don't typically have understeer except corner entry after an open straight; once I'm into a transition sequence it's rare - even when it's a fast one. And in some cases, it's because I'm not turning the wheel far enough

[Prmspen]

Originally Posted by cjd

I'm not sure how much push is typical for C/DS twins since I run STX.

Most of the time I have obvious understeer problems it's a driver correction away from being solved... going in too hot is the usual cause; I don't typically have understeer except corner entry after an open straight; once I'm into a transition sequence it's rare - even when it's a fast one. And in some cases, it's because I'm not turning the wheel far enough

Yes, in my case I'm pretty sure the understeer is caused by my driving -
like you, I tend to get in too hot. I'll be working on that this year for sure. Having stickier rubber should help too.

I've been doing some more research, and it seems like main benefit is keeping the inside rear planted in transition. So I'm thinking I'll go for a bar that's stiffer than stock, but not one of the super stiff ones.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Prmspen

Yes, in my case I'm pretty sure the understeer is caused by my driving -
like you, I tend to get in too hot. I'll be working on that this year for sure. Having stickier rubber should help too.

I've been doing some more research, and it seems like main benefit is keeping the inside rear planted in transition. So I'm thinking I'll go for a bar that's stiffer than stock, but not one of the super stiff ones.

Stickier tires will just cover your bad habits, not make you a better driver. The car understeers and oversteers depending on drive input. It can easily do both in the same corner. Feel free to modify, but don't think that you're fixing a problem.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Prmspen

Yes, in my case I'm pretty sure the understeer is caused by my driving -
like you, I tend to get in too hot. I'll be working on that this year for sure. Having stickier rubber should help too.

I've been doing some more research, and it seems like main benefit is keeping the inside rear planted in transition. So I'm thinking I'll go for a bar that's stiffer than stock, but not one of the super stiff ones.

If you want a freebie test about what a stiffer bar will give you, you can try unhooking one of the bars to see if that helps you. Pull one of the swaybar links out before an event, hell if your between runs are long enough you can even pull out the rear in between runs if you're prepared. I ran about 1/3 of my events this year with the rear sway bar unhooked trying to figure out my STX setup.

You could also mess with tire pressures a bit to help the car rotate, I know it's very very common in the stock classes.

The other thing that really really helped my car rotate was the pedal dance. I had some trouble adjusting my braking technique but after a day of messing with it, and then trying to go back to the way it was before I'm convinced it's well worth doing in autox.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25494

And as previously mentioned, driver mod is king. The best drivers can make even the most fucked up POS go fast. A couple autox resources try their best to hammer it home, a lot of champions are champions despite their setup skills.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The other thing that really really helped my car rotate was the pedal dance. I had some trouble adjusting my braking technique but after a day of messing with it, and then trying to go back to the way it was before I'm convinced it's well worth doing in autox.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25494

And as previously mentioned, driver mod is king. The best drivers can make even the most fucked up POS go fast. A couple autox resources try their best to hammer it home, a lot of champions are champions despite their setup skills.

Holy shit, you have really come around! Kudos, man!

[redlined600]

Anyone have experience with this product or company?

Press in spherical bushings
http://www.esmrace.com/product-p/brzfrs.esmfrlkb.htm

[zdr93523]

We should separate this thread into "Got a track related question..." and "Got an AutoX question..." threads because they couldn't me more different, especially when it comes to vehicle build and setup. New members could get quite confused since the majority of people don't read information completely or in context. Just a thought.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

We should separate this thread into "Got a track related question..." and "Got an AutoX question..." threads because they couldn't me more different, especially when it comes to vehicle build and setup. New members could get quite confused since the majority of people don't read information completely or in context. Just a thought.

People on the Internet reading things out of context? You don't say.

Good idea on separating the performance Q/A threads so at least each one has the same general discussion goals.

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by Uplink

People on the Internet reading things out of context? You don't say.

Good idea on separating the performance Q/A threads so at least each one has the same general discussion goals.

The original intent of this thread was track, but it has digressed into a mix of both and with 300+ pages, it is quite a mess of info.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

The original intent of this thread was track, but it has digressed into a mix of both and with 300+ pages, it is quite a mess of info.

While the target handling characteristics for best performance are different, I think the setup information itself is relevant across the board - you just take it a little further one way or another. There are already threads for the two common classes for the twin, and lots of setup info there too.

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by cjd

While the target handling characteristics for best performance are different, I think the setup information itself is relevant across the board - you just take it a little further one way or another. There are already threads for the two common classes for the twin, and lots of setup info there too.

I couldn't disagree more on certain setup info. AutoX is almost opposite setup, big sway bars will ruin a track 86. Tires aren't the same, camber doesn't matter anywhere near what it does on a track car as far as wear is concerned since heat and wear are basically non-existent in AutoX (relatively). From a new guy's perspective, I think you could become easily confused on what a correct setup, build, etc... would be, unless you read very carefully, since the posts are a giant Q&A as intended, but don't follow the "track related" original intent. Most people don't have time to wade through the 300+ pages to figure out what is or isn't relative to them and if they're new, they may not be able to discern which information is related to their chosen activity.

My idea was just a thought. This is Mike's thread so it is really up to him. His OP is 100% track, 0% autocross. I only get on here to try to help, so I have to wade through pages of AutoX stuff to figure out which posts are relevant and/or could benefit from some input. I don't see a down side to separating them and it would add clarity for new people trying to get into either AutoX or tracking their cars. I think it is a testament to what Mike started with this thread and what we've built here on this forum and it is a good problem to have.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

I couldn't disagree more on certain setup info. AutoX is almost opposite setup, big sway bars will ruin a track 86. Tires aren't the same, camber doesn't matter anywhere near what it does on a track car as far as wear is concerned since heat and wear are basically non-existent in AutoX (relatively). From a new guy's perspective, I think you could become easily confused on what a correct setup, build, etc... would be, unless you read very carefully, since the posts are a giant Q&A as intended, but don't follow the "track related" original intent. Most people don't have time to wade through the 300+ pages to figure out what is or isn't relative to them and if they're new, they may not be able to discern which information is related to their chosen activity.

My experience is different I guess, though I'm running STX where I can tune springs first, then swaybars. The limitations of C/DS AutoX does make for limitations in how you find the right setup - I'm not sure how that plays out on track.

I've learned more about what to look for, and what changes to make to achieve a desired outcome from this thread than the AutoX threads.

C