Help needed for Street legal Track Car on a budget

[fminicooper]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

I'd probably jump for the rce tarmac springs 5k/5k over the yellows at 4.5k/4.5k. They should be better suited to 200tw rubber.

I was not aware of that option, it seems is not listed under teh platform in RCE web page.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

Do you think that Swift Spec-R springs (4.5F/5.3R) will work with Bilstein B6s?

Yes. I got the B8s because I was worried about loose springs at -30mm ride height, but since then I've found feedback from peeps who have run B6/Spec-R springs with no probs. Also based on how much I had to compress the springs during install, for sure B6s should work...

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

I was not aware of that option, it seems is not listed under teh platform in RCE web page.

It's quite possible RCE has since discontinued them as of recent. They were listed available when I bought my yellows 2 years ago. Pandemic probably didn't help due to slower production etc.

If you were curious you can always try contacting RCE through the forum. They are usually pretty quick to respond.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39418

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68083

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

MSR CCW 1.50.3
COTA 2.43.26 (room to improve)
EagleCannyon 2.17.x (room to improve)

That's fast for MSR Houston. If the car feels floaty over sweepers a good coilover setup would definitely help but I do not think you will drop much more time without adding aero. Wider tires will definitely help too, Apex just had a thread with 50% off for a set of 17x9.

[Vesartis]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

Thanks Versatis,
I agree with you, make no sense to R&D yourself. My choises are limited to what you mentioned.

Do you know if you can change spring rates in CSC and RCE if you decide to go stiffer latter in life?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can technically change spring rates, but at the risk of deviating from the sweet spot balance. You would have to contact them for their recommendations.

Since sway bars are being mentioned, it should be noted that you may want to revert to OEM bars if you decide to go with new coilovers, as that is often what they were designed around. But you can always play with bars again later.

Re: Wider wheels/tires. Those will get you lap time, but if your main complaint is softness and feel, that will only get worse with more grip. You can also use tires to your advantage for a daily/track compromise, by getting yourself a nice compliant tire for street driving.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Our RCE Tarmac springs are indeed discontinued for now. We could bring them back someday but not in the immediate future.

17x8 is a better fit for 225s and pretty fun. If budget is a concern, the 17x7.5 factory PP wheels also work and can be found cheap used.

We have done a few 6k/7k spring set ups for RCE SS1 coilovers.

- Andrew

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

F soft
R soft

stiffen your front.

[fminicooper]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

stiffen your front.

Make sense going back to OEM sway bar, or is to soft.

[Westen86]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

Make sense going back to OEM sway bar, or is to soft.

A stiffer front swaybar only is very common. Try your options, just make sure the front is stiffer than stock.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fminicooper

Make sense going back to OEM sway bar, or is to soft.

In my case, going to much stiffer front and rear Eibach bars improved mid-corner grip quite a bit. I think softer-sprung track cars like ours benefit from them. Balance is good to slightly understeery/stable now, I am not tempted to go back to the stock sways. Pretty sure keeping stiff front bar and OEM rear would cause my car overuse the outside front and understeer.

[fminicooper]

Originally Posted by ZDan

In my case, going to much stiffer front and rear Eibach bars improved mid-corner grip quite a bit. I think softer-sprung track cars like ours benefit from them. Balance is good to slightly understeery/stable now, I am not tempted to go back to the stock sways. Pretty sure keeping stiff front bar and OEM rear would cause my car overuse the outside front and understeer.

It seems that the action plan.

Eventually I will finish going with Coil Over, no doubts.

But I prefer step by step to see the improvement changing sway bar setting before.

Another middle step in going stiffer spring, not very costly since I will do it myself and my shock are fairly news.

[Icecreamtruk]

The car is a whole thing, you cant look at it "step by step" because X mod doesnt really work with the rest OEM, but really does work when Y and Z things are changed. So, what do you really want at the end? Work with that in mind. I think what you are trying to do is have a car that weights 2750lbs at best feel like a car that weights 2000lbs at worse. You wanna know what 750lbs does to handling? Go drive a mustang and compare that to your car and you'll see.

If you want the car to "feel" any sort of comparable to a lighter car you would need two or three things: wider/stickier tires, stiffer suspension (coilovers and swaybars) and aero. With all those 3 things, your car can corner and feel like the miata, while being quite capable in the straights by comparison.

Lastly, dont try to "drive a car like X or Y". Any good driver will drive a car however best that car is driven and it is up to them to adapt to the car in question. If you keep chasing a miata feeling with this car you'll end up buying your way there rather than developing your driving.

Lighter car in stickier tires and stiffer suspension (the race miata) is probably letting you get away with a lot of aggression behind the wheel that the softly sprung and not sticky FRS is not tolerating as much. I'd say that rather than progressing as a driver the miata might be bringing out bad things in you. Do you have video or datalogs of you driving either car?

[fminicooper]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

The car is a whole thing, you cant look at it "step by step" because X mod doesnt really work with the rest OEM, but really does work when Y and Z things are changed. So, what do you really want at the end? Work with that in mind. I think what you are trying to do is have a car that weights 2750lbs at best feel like a car that weights 2000lbs at worse. You wanna know what 750lbs does to handling? Go drive a mustang and compare that to your car and you'll see.

If you want the car to "feel" any sort of comparable to a lighter car you would need two or three things: wider/stickier tires, stiffer suspension (coilovers and swaybars) and aero. With all those 3 things, your car can corner and feel like the miata, while being quite capable in the straights by comparison.

Lastly, dont try to "drive a car like X or Y". Any good driver will drive a car however best that car is driven and it is up to them to adapt to the car in question. If you keep chasing a miata feeling with this car you'll end up buying your way there rather than developing your driving.

Lighter car in stickier tires and stiffer suspension (the race miata) is probably letting you get away with a lot of aggression behind the wheel that the softly sprung and not sticky FRS is not tolerating as much. I'd say that rather than progressing as a driver the miata might be bringing out bad things in you. Do you have video or datalogs of you driving either car?

Icecreamtruck,
To your question, my intention is to improve as driver (be faster and more consistent), I am doing what everybody tell to do, “seat time”. As a secondary objective I want to work in my own car (I did all the work except alignment till today)
Maybe I focused too much in my description in the comparison between both cars, I do not have intention of converting FRS in a Miata, I understand your point.

Now, on the FRS, with my limited resources I am trying to figure it out what I need to do next to have a more solid, consistent and faster car. Big aero and weight reduction out of the table for now, looks like I need to work on suspension.

At the end of the day, having this car in X condition what make sense to adjust to improve it, on a budget friendly desicion.

An yes, my first year was all about driving too aggressive or less patience with weight transfer.

I attached a video of last weekend on the Miata (98F day). For the FRS I have only on the other direction, not the same day (Dec 2020, cool temp).

Thanks for your replay.
Miata // MSR Houston CW // July 21 //Hot

FRS // MSR Houston CCW // Dec 20 //Cool

[steverife]

No track here, but I drive my autocross across the country to events.

I run 7k/7k rates and they honestly feel better than the Eibach Pro Kit that I had before. With that said, coilovers certainly add some complexity with the camber plates.

The only thing that really changed the street manners was going from around -3.1 degrees camber to around -4.2 degrees camber up front. The car wanders a lot at the current camber setting.